Occupy Together!!

Forums › Off topic › Occupy Together!!

1 | ... | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | ... | 41

1993 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#540631 3-Nov-2011 10:34

If Occupy provides a machanism wherby a gobal focus results (i.e. G20 as stated above), then perhaps a global trading tax and settlement policy could result. This is idealistic, but hey, isn't that what it's all about?

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#540639 3-Nov-2011 10:55

John2010: Regarding the comments on a FTT on speculative trading, the vast majority of currency trading takes place outside of NZ - in fact, around 60% of it takes place in just 3 cities. While it is likely a surprise to some, NZ does not of course have tax jurisdiction over other countries. I would also suggest that the vast majority of currency speculators (in terms of trades) are not NZ tax residents.

If there was a financial transaction tax on fx transactions in NZ one would expect transactions of any magnitude to just move to being made offshore (although the tax could be placed on NZ tax residents on declared offshore trades).

So it is not going to fly.

If there is a financial transaction tax on ordinary financial transactions made within NZ (withdrawals, deposits, etc) it just becomes another tax on all of us and has to be looked at as to its merits and demerits as opposed other collection methods.

+1

A very large portion of the transactions by value will stop being conducted here with a FTT in place. The people that will pay it are the same people today that pay GST... The vast majority of which are end users and consumers.

Imagine you're a big business and you have a choice of either conducting business here in NZ and paying a FTT (which to be life changing will have to be larger than you currently pay in tax by a lot) or moving at least some of the financial aspects of your business overseas? Unless you decide to act philanthropically, you'll move it offshore...

And if you were the sort of business owner that acts philantropically, chances are you're not part of the problem at the moment.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79295 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#541386 5-Nov-2011 08:43

Ironic that the movement is now adopting the V masks as their symbol. Don't they realise they pay licences to the studio owning the copyright to the movie for each mask they buy?

Dratsab

3946 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#541405 5-Nov-2011 09:37

freitasm: Ironic that the movement is now adopting the V masks as their symbol. Don't they realise they pay licences to the studio owning the copyright to the movie for each mask they buy?

They're pirated masks!!

I remember as a small child in England, on Nov 5 we used to a throw a dummy onto a bonfire and shout "burn the Guy, burn the Guy!". I find it interesting how the perception of a would-be terrorist can be reshaped and made acceptable (not to me) over time.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79295 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#541406 5-Nov-2011 09:42

Quite interesting this comes out in Guy Fawkes day. I was reading about it other day. The idea of "burning" was to show support to the monarch, by burning the dummy. Then later it became a social festival more than a political thing.

These days people go to see fireworks, and I doubt even a small percentage know about the why this is happening.

lyonrouge

1993 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#541409 5-Nov-2011 09:48

my prediction is that in generation or so it will be merged into Halloween (not to be interpreted as either a positive or negative statement, just a prediction)

Cloudmelon

186 posts

Master Geek

#541420 5-Nov-2011 11:16

freitasm: Ironic that the movement is now adopting the V masks as their symbol. Don't they realise they pay licences to the studio owning the copyright to the movie for each mask they buy?

Pretty sure there are other organizations who have already become synonymous with these masks. So the 'occupy movement' is also kinda just copying, as well as copyright infringement. :D

.... Bet the makers of the V movie are happy...

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

oxnsox

1923 posts

Uber Geek

#541458 5-Nov-2011 15:04

Talkiet:
John2010: Regarding the comments on a FTT on speculative trading, the vast majority of currency trading takes place outside of NZ - in fact, around 60% of it takes place in just 3 cities. NZ does not of course have tax jurisdiction over other countries. I would also suggest that the vast majority of currency speculators (in terms of trades) are not NZ tax residents.

If there was a financial transaction tax on fx transactions in NZ one would expect transactions of any magnitude to just move to being made offshore (although the tax could be placed on NZ tax residents on declared offshore trades).

So it is not going to fly.

If there is a financial transaction tax on ordinary financial transactions made within NZ (withdrawals, deposits, etc) it just becomes another tax on all of us and has to be looked at as to its merits and demerits as opposed other collection methods.

+1

A very large portion of the transactions by value will stop being conducted here with a FTT in place. The people that will pay it are the same people today that pay GST... The vast majority of which are end users and consumers.

Imagine you're a big business and you have a choice of either conducting business here in NZ and paying a FTT or moving the financial aspects of your business overseas? Unless you decide to act philanthropically, you'll move it offshore...

Agreed but.....
Would it not be possible to place any FTT against the Currency portion of the transaction? Although the trades may occur offshore if they're in NZ$ then we'd get our fee?

I guess for such a system to work it would have to have global acceptance, and that would be the biggest problem. A bit like trusting the fox with the management of the chickens

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#541462 5-Nov-2011 15:40

oxnsox:
Agreed but.....
Would it not be possible to place any FTT against the Currency portion of the transaction? Although the trades may occur offshore if they're in NZ$ then we'd get our fee?

I guess for such a system to work it would have to have global acceptance, and that would be the biggest problem. A bit like trusting the fox with the management of the chickens

Short answer. No... There are already companies in NZ that buy and sell in $USD or other currencies depending on who they are selling buying from... Add in a FTT on the NZD and there's just another reason to exchange different currencies where possible.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

codyc1515

1598 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#541477 5-Nov-2011 17:16

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani says responsibility for the Occupy Wall Street movement rests squarely on the shoulders of President Obama. "This is a very dangerous movement, and it's ironic it's happening under a president who promised to unify us," Giuliani said. "Barack Obama owns the Occupy Wall Street movement, it would not have happened but for his class warfare."

Source: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/11/04/giuliani-obama-owns-occupy-wall-street

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79295 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#541479 5-Nov-2011 17:21

"source" is Fox news, quoting Rudy Giuliani. 9/11.

codyc1515

1598 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#541481 5-Nov-2011 17:22

freitasm: "source" is Fox news, quoting Rudy Giuliani. 9/11.

Exactly! How could you trust them?

MikeyPI

450 posts

Ultimate Geek

#541846 7-Nov-2011 00:39

Talkiet:
Linuxluver: [snip]
With the Multi-National 1% Party in the Beehive, you know NZ isn't being run for you.....Their actions in almost every sector make that abundantly clear.[snip]

On the other hand, the genuinely minor parties have some comicly irresponsible policies that don't stand up to 30 seconds of consideration.

I'm not rich, the bank owns most of my home and I don't own any shares.

But I still want responsible economic policies and I understand that if you want more spending you need more taxes... I also believe that taxes shouldn't get any less equitable than they are at the moment - the rich are paying a HUGE amount more tax than the poor. I just don't care about emotional, unreasoned arguments that boil down to "Robin Hood" approaches...

Most people conveniently forget that if big business can run more cheaply elsewhere (overseas) or if they don't get an acceptable return on investment, then they simply won't stay in NZ. Explain how that's actually good for employment...

Cheers - N

Are you able to recognise economic responsible policy? Most govt policy doesnt stand good scrutiny. 3 strikes, defence force, ACC, Pike River, SCF all disaster from poor policy.

"the rich are paying a HUGE amount more tax than the poor", no kidding, the poor have a small thing of a lack of money.

Talkiet

4793 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#541922 7-Nov-2011 09:56

MikeyPI: [snip]
Are you able to recognise economic responsible policy?

I couldn't tell a good fake of the Mona Lisa, but if a twelve year old kid tried to copy it with crayons, I could say it was a fake. Same principle here. When your policies consist of spending VAST sums of money without bringing in similar vast sums, or your plans for bringing in vast sums have a pretty obvious set of flaws like driving businesses out of the country - then I'm comfortable making a personal decision that I don't believe they are close to responsible.

Most govt policy doesnt stand good scrutiny. 3 strikes, defence force, ACC, Pike River, SCF all disaster from poor policy.

What you've done here is select a few high profile cases and ignore the HUGE MAJORITY of policy that hasn't caused high profile issues in the last term or two. In my opinion basing a decision as important on who runs the country on a few high profile incidents is short sighted.

"the rich are paying a HUGE amount more tax than the poor", no kidding, the poor have a small thing of a lack of money.

So? are you really saying that the poor should be subsidised even more? If so, where do you draw the line? Maybe everyone earning under $40k/year should have their income topped up to 50k by the rich people and not pay any tax? After all, the rich can afford it! Oh no, that's right - go that direction and they'll leave NZ.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

MikeyPI

450 posts

Ultimate Geek

#541973 7-Nov-2011 12:01

Talkiet:
I couldn't tell a good fake of the Mona Lisa, but if a twelve year old kid tried to copy it with crayons, I could say it was a fake. Same principle here. When your policies consist of spending VAST sums of money without bringing in similar vast sums, or your plans for bringing in vast sums have a pretty obvious set of flaws like driving businesses out of the country - then I'm comfortable making a personal decision that I don't believe they are close to responsible.

So it seems you a making veiled references to specific policy / parties. Care to list for analysis?

Talkiet:
What you've done here is select a few high profile cases and ignore the HUGE MAJORITY of policy that hasn't caused high profile issues in the last term or two. In my opinion basing a decision as important on who runs the country on a few high profile incidents is short sighted.

Can you list 5 policies from the govt, that are economically sound (including the all too commonly left out social cost) that have benefited the majority of NZ'ers?

Talkiet:
So? are you really saying that the poor should be subsidised even more? If so, where do you draw the line? Maybe everyone earning under $40k/year should have their income topped up to 50k by the rich people and not pay any tax? After all, the rich can afford it! Oh no, that's right - go that direction and they'll leave NZ.
Cheers - N

No one is saying anything of the sort. However considering the usage of tax payer subsidised items is proportional to income, then they should be paying more.
However as pointed by the mega wealthy & top economists, the very top tax bracket pay proportionately LESS tax that the lowest bracket, listed for % of income paid as tax.

Also where is this mystical land of no taxes? I laugh with the line that the rich will just leave.
1. If they are merely here to gouge kiwis, profit, then leave, then good riddance.
2. Where are they going? Oz has a higher top tax rate & CGT...

As numerous social scientists, economists & mathematician have proved, money flows up, not down. Most people who dispute this are uninformed, misguided, or deliberately lying.

1 | ... | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | ... | 41