What is wrong with our justice system when a sentence like this is handed down.

Forums › Off topic › What is wrong with our justice system when a sentence like this is handed down.

1 | 2 | 3

1238 posts

Uber Geek

#2106830 12-Oct-2018 15:37

8 years seems light, but reading the article the Judge started with 13 years - it was the 3rd he took off (for the young age and guilty plea etc etc ) that seems to much for me.

However maybe young people should be given a chance???

Looking into the sentencing the has 4 bands with the worst being for gang rape, or on-going rape over a period of time, - that's 16+ years.

This rape was in the category below this and the range 12 - 18 years.

SpartanVXL

1307 posts

Uber Geek

#2106855 12-Oct-2018 16:39

I do like this forum and the tech/hobby discussions that come up. Whenever something like this pops up in the future I'll probably have to ignore it on my feed.

I'm no soft-heart and do believe that serious actions require serious consequences but reading some of the replies here is depressing. Punitive measures are just a band-aid to a much bigger problem. A lot of what I'm seeing seemingly want to cut the leg off instead of treating it or even preventing it.

At this rate its not going to get better, its going to be the same if not worse. People like this will keep popping up and there will be more victims in the future. I'm sure there evidence that if this kid had a better life he'd be in a different place now. At this rate he's going to get chucked in the system with the rest of them, spat out in some years time and be worse off than he is now.

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2106885 12-Oct-2018 17:22

SpartanVXL: People like this will keep popping up and there will be more victims in the future. I'm sure there evidence that if this kid had a better life he'd be in a different place now. At this rate he's going to get chucked in the system with the rest of them, spat out in some years time and be worse off than he is now.

The death penalty may not stop offenders like this from committing a terrible crime, but it will stop them from doing it a second time.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

alasta

6704 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#2106899 12-Oct-2018 17:48

Lias:

SpartanVXL: People like this will keep popping up and there will be more victims in the future. I'm sure there evidence that if this kid had a better life he'd be in a different place now. At this rate he's going to get chucked in the system with the rest of them, spat out in some years time and be worse off than he is now.

The death penalty may not stop offenders like this from committing a terrible crime, but it will stop them from doing it a second time.

And stop them from reproducing.

Geektastic

17943 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2106970 12-Oct-2018 18:57

Lias:
SpartanVXL: People like this will keep popping up and there will be more victims in the future. I'm sure there evidence that if this kid had a better life he'd be in a different place now. At this rate he's going to get chucked in the system with the rest of them, spat out in some years time and be worse off than he is now.

The death penalty may not stop offenders like this from committing a terrible crime, but it will stop them from doing it a second time.

Not to mention saving $110,000 a year in taxes....

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2106975 12-Oct-2018 19:10

Lias:

The death penalty may not stop offenders like this from committing a terrible crime, but it will stop them from doing it a second time.

That has really worked out well in America. Oh wait...

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2106976 12-Oct-2018 19:13

SpartanVXL: I do like this forum and the tech/hobby discussions that come up. Whenever something like this pops up in the future I'll probably have to ignore it on my feed. I'm no soft-heart and do believe that serious actions require serious consequences but reading some of the replies here is depressing. Punitive measures are just a band-aid to a much bigger problem. A lot of what I'm seeing seemingly want to cut the leg off instead of treating it or even preventing it. At this rate its not going to get better, its going to be the same if not worse. People like this will keep popping up and there will be more victims in the future. I'm sure there evidence that if this kid had a better life he'd be in a different place now. At this rate he's going to get chucked in the system with the rest of them, spat out in some years time and be worse off than he is now.

If you get depressed, silently read the comments as spoken with a Roy Moore drawl - and realise it's just the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2106989 12-Oct-2018 19:58

I don't know what the judge's options are in a case like this, but my gut says someone who does what this guy did should get indefinite detention, not as punishment, but as protection for the rest of us. A fixed term just means he has to be released again at some point, regardless of whether he is 'rehabilitated' or not.

Plenty of outraged 'hang em high' types howling for his blood. I wonder where people like this were 18 years ago when something meaningful actually could have been done. Where are they now, when something could be done about today's kid who will commit crimes like this in another 18 years. If you don't want to pay the money or go to the trouble to do something about the system that allows people like this to be produced, then you have no business screaming for tougher penalties. Do something real about the drug problem. Do something about children in poverty. Do something about education, and fair wages, and gangs, and creating neighbourhoods that children with decent values can grow up in. As long as the problems keep getting ignored and swept under the carpet and put in the too hard box, things like this will happen. Apparently this guy is also mentally handicapped, and had trouble understanding what the charges against him were. So why didn't anyone notice until he did something so horrible? Hanging him or dumping him on an island doesn't solve a damned thing, also not for his victims. Or leave things as they are, and make more victims.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2107234 13-Oct-2018 12:50

Rikkitic:

..gut says someone who does what this guy did should get indefinite detention, not as punishment, but as protection for the rest of us. A fixed term just means he has to be released again at some point, regardless of whether he is 'rehabilitated' or not.

Plenty of outraged 'hang em high' types howling for his blood...

You agree he should never be released to protect society, yet in the next breath you vilify those of us who want to achieve exactly that, permanently, at low cost to the tax payers. Locking them up is expensive, and is still no guarantee they won't escape, or eventually be released, and re-offend. We'd shoot a rabid dog, or a dog that attacked sheep, personally I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same with rapists and paedophiles.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2107249 13-Oct-2018 13:22

What I am saying, and it astounds me that the 'hang em high' types can't see that, is that creatures like this one come from somewhere. They don't just spring full-grown from god's forehead. Instead of going around like a half-cocked vigilante trying to blow away everyone who does something horrible, would it not be better, fairer to the rest of us, cheaper, more efficient, more sensible in every possible way, to make some effort to prevent rabid individuals from ever becoming rabid in the first place? Why wait until they hurt someone? That seems like a pretty stupid and pointless approach to me and it is extremely unfair to victims like that poor woman and her daughter. Right now, at this very moment, the rapists and pedos and other vicious criminals of 18 years from now are being born and deformed, just like that guy was 18 years ago. His victims would have been spared a lot of agony if someone had intervened with him before he became a monster. You just want to go around going bang bang bang because it satisfies some primitive cowboy urge for vengeance that you have. You couldn't care less about actually doing something that would protect people.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2107269 13-Oct-2018 15:12

Rikkitic:

What I am saying, and it astounds me that the 'hang em high' types can't see that, is that creatures like this one come from somewhere. They don't just spring full-grown from god's forehead. Instead of going around like a half-cocked vigilante trying to blow away everyone who does something horrible, would it not be better, fairer to the rest of us, cheaper, more efficient, more sensible in every possible way, to make some effort to prevent rabid individuals from ever becoming rabid in the first place? Why wait until they hurt someone? That seems like a pretty stupid and pointless approach to me and it is extremely unfair to victims like that poor woman and her daughter. Right now, at this very moment, the rapists and pedos and other vicious criminals of 18 years from now are being born and deformed, just like that guy was 18 years ago. His victims would have been spared a lot of agony if someone had intervened with him before he became a monster. You just want to go around going bang bang bang because it satisfies some primitive cowboy urge for vengeance that you have. You couldn't care less about actually doing something that would protect people.

I don't think bring pro death penalty (or even pro "tougher on crime") means people are opposed to early intervention and rehabilitation. My personal view is that we should try and rehabilitate people who offend at the lower end of the spectrum, jail those in the middle, and shoot those at higher end. I'm not opposed to early intervention either, I think organisations like CYFS are underfunded, and there is a serious shortage of foster homes. Least you accuse me of being uninformed about these matters, I should mention that my parents are foster carers. I've learnt more than I ever needed to know about the screwed up things those kids have lived through, and it makes my blood boil. You are right in that we absolutely can and should be doing more to try and prevent these things happening, but that still doesn't mean that we shouldn't be shooting those sad cases where things can't be magically fixed.

jarledb

Webhead
3257 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2107305 13-Oct-2018 15:41

There are so many problems with the death penalty.

If we for a moment ignore that US states without death penalty had lower murder rates which clearly shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent for violent crimes.

The main problem with the death penalty is that our justice systems aren't perfect.

Innocent people actually get convicted for serious crimes. That also means that innocent people will get killed for acts they have not committed.

It is also a problem that the death penalty typically affect the poor and minorities more than others.

You should take the time to read Amnesty's page on the death penalty if you want to learn more about the problems with the death penatly.

That said, most people advocating for the death penalty seem to want it for the punishment. Which makes no sense, if punishment is your goal - the punishment ends when someone dies. If you want to give them a good punishment, wouldn't it make more sense to let them live out their lives behind bars?

Jarle Dahl Bergersen | Referral Links: Want $50 off when you join Octopus Energy? Use this referral code
Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by making a donation or subscribing.

Bluntj

556 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2107312 13-Oct-2018 15:51

jarledb:

There are so many problems with the death penalty.

If we for a moment ignore that US states without death penalty had lower murder rates which clearly shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent for violent crimes.

The main problem with the death penalty is that our justice systems aren't perfect.

Innocent people actually get convicted for serious crimes. That also means that innocent people will get killed for acts they have not committed.

It is also a problem that the death penalty typically affect the poor and minorities more than others.

You should take the time to read Amnesty's page on the death penalty if you want to learn more about the problems with the death penatly.

That said, most people advocating for the death penalty seem to want it for the punishment. Which makes no sense, if punishment is your goal - the punishment ends when someone dies. If you want to give them a good punishment, wouldn't it make more sense to let them live out their lives behind bars?

to add my 5 cents....Justice System today is based on what sort of defence you can afford or who was your public defender. They estimate in the USA 10-20% of all sentences are unjust ie people going to jail for crimes they did not commit. Also people getting off serious crimes due to great and expensive defense teams.

To bring back capital punishment is abhorrent to me. We don't even have it in our schools now and it did me no harm.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18660 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2107317 13-Oct-2018 16:01

Uh, I think you may be confusing capital punishment with corporal punishment. Death-row inmates are probably beyond spanking.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#2107325 13-Oct-2018 16:18

Fred99:

Mspec:

I could care less if the guy was on drugs (though it does not say)

I actually could care - and the article actually does say:

"As the court heard, he had been smoking methamphetamine for about two days prior to the incident."

Note that's not saying "had smoked" about two days before, but had been ...

I'd like to know what was going on - what the circumstances could have been - whereby an apparently intellectually challenged and emotionally disturbed adolescent was *for profit* sold enough methamphetamine to blow his mind for two days. Whoever was dumb enough to do that bears responsibility as well, and if that's not stopped, it's only going to happen again.

"could care less" is a term americans use instead of 'couldn't care less'. The american version doesn't make any sense.

1 | 2 | 3