Hot water Cylinder help.

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2849 posts

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#1319287 8-Jun-2015 11:42

sep11guy:
linw: Errm, Jase, he did turn it off.

Electric heating is pretty simple so there aren't many ways one cistern can be more efficient than another. One factor would be insulation. You need to tell the forum about that.

But, generally, greater power in equals greater water temp. Would be helpful if you put a thermometer under your hot water tap to measure that.

There are real experts here who will chime in I am sure.

Thanks for your replies, there is no insulation currently, but the home was insulated fully top and bottom few years back and our bills have gone up only for past 2 months.

water temp - last week the elec came and when he changed the thermostat , he first set it to 60C, but then we said it was way too hot, and then he came back next day and he changed it to 55deg C.

Google 'nz hot water temp' and you will see there are regs for water temp. Going too low raises the danger of Legionella bacteria growth and going too high risks scalding.

Newer systems have tempering valves that enable the cylinder to be at 60 deg and the taps at max 55 deg. Your system, and my 1975 one, don't have the tempering valve so we have to make a compromise.

Regardless of whether you find a water leak, you do need to install a wrap (or two!) around your cylinder. You will know about heat loss by holding your hand on the cylinder.

Good luck with your research.

andrewNZ

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#1319289 8-Jun-2015 11:43

Plumber sounds like the way. I'm no plumber, but I'd expect your water to be borderline showerable with the cylinder off over night. Assuming it was fully heated when it was turned off of course.

My mid 80's cylinder is heated only by wetback in winter, it probably gets to 80 degrees. A few weeks ago we showered 2 people in the morning, loaded and closed down the fire and left (the loaded fire provides little to no water heating during the day). We came home late that night so didn't bother lighting the fire again. The water was still hot enough for a shower in the morning.

sep11guy

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#1319290 8-Jun-2015 11:46

andrewNZ: Plumber sounds like the way. I'm no plumber, but I'd expect your water to be borderline showerable with the cylinder off over night. Assuming it was fully heated when it was turned off of course.
.

Yes i agree, cuz i remember, i turned heater on , and went it when it was in between cold and luke warm and could easily do brushing teeth, etc So it wasnt that bad.

I guess I will start with the plumber and hopefully he can look it in and fix the issue straight away.

Jase2985

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#1319340 8-Jun-2015 12:46

it cost me about 600 for a new 180L water cylinder, and just on 1100 for the plumber to do his work. There was a little more work involved with my install as the floor needed to be fixed. so that added to the price.

We got the water cylinder in an end of year clearance, along with all the valves etc needed for the install, so the plumber just installed it and added new pipes.

Jase2985

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#1319341 8-Jun-2015 12:49

you should be able to do some basic touble shooting yourself though, check the overflow pipe on the roof, i found it easier to check at night with a torch as you can see the water glistening on the pipe and on the roof. check the outlet pipe from the tank a few hours after you have used a hot tap, see if its hot, that will indicate something is leaking. can you get under the house to check some of the piping? could be a leak under there

linw

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#1319424 8-Jun-2015 14:47

Good tip about feeling the outlet pipe to detect a leak, Jase.

sep11guy

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#1319644 8-Jun-2015 18:46

Thanks so much guys, i have booked a plumber for noon visit 2moro, when i called him he said "probably the thermostat is not working" so i told him that it was changed.

And have told him to check for "leaks" etc and also told him what is happening reg the usage of kwh

Lets see and hope if he can fix it 2moro,

will update after he has done his visit.

Rikkitic

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#1320143 9-Jun-2015 11:18

I have no special knowledge but can offer my own experience. We live in an area with high lime content and over the years our old heater gradually filled with mineral deposits. This made it necessary to change the heating element every couple of years. It would become covered with calcification and this would greatly affect efficiency, eventually causing the element to fail. Someone else hinted at something like this. It might be worth taking a closer look. That could also be the source of your extra costs.

The calcification became so bad that eventually we had to replace the heater. The first one we bought turned out to be the wrong one. I'm not sure of the reason but I think it had to do with the water pressure, which is very low here on the farm. The result is that we now have a brand-new, never used water heater sitting in the garage. I don't know if it would be suitable for you and I also don't know if it is actually available but I could find out if you are interested. It might save you some money and it would free up some space here. Let me know if you are interested in finding out.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

sep11guy

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#1320164 9-Jun-2015 11:23

Thanks for your help, the plumber is gonna come today and have a look. Hopefully after he has done, things should be back working like before.

I ll report back !

andrew027

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#1320187 9-Jun-2015 11:41

I can't help much with your cylinder - the first thing I have done after moving into the last two houses I have owned is to take the hot water cylinder out and put a Rinnai Infinity gas system in. But the last house I had where gas wasn't available also had a quite old cylinder which was playing up, and I changed the thermostat and put insulated wrap around the cylinder (and the first couple of metres of pipe coming out of the top if it, because the water froze in the pipe one winter) and it reduced my power bill about 15% from memory (most space heating was via two wood burners).

One question though - in the OP you said "I did another test with hot water switch off at MAIN Elec Board, and all appliances switched off ( apart from fridge, cellphones ) , power usage was 1kwh". Did you do a test with the hot water switch OFF and applicances ON, and another with the hot water ON and appliances OFF, to make sure it's not some other random appliance on the fritz?

rmt38

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#1320258 9-Jun-2015 13:03

The hot water cylinder here dates from 1965. Depending on hot water usage, it uses on average 3.4 (highest = 5) units a day for the past two years+ going by power bills. It is uninsulated, and sits by a leaky front door in a cupboard with a door that does not shut properly. I heard it was not safe to insulate because it is on wetback. I would love to hear differently.

It has used no power for a while now, as the power has been turned off, and the wetback fire has been run every day, if not every second day. When it gets too hot on the wetback, a loud glug glug glug noise comes from the wall as cold water is let in. This would of course dribble or steam out the pipe out the roof.

As it's on tank supply, it contains some amount of clay both in sludge form and baked onto the walls. If given a real good boil up, a bath will be nice and red. This clay appears to make no negative difference to the power cost. I gave it it's perhaps first cleanout in many years, and steaming red clay sludge poured out from the bottom for 20 minutes, a year or so back. Power bills were not noticeably changed, but water clarity was (after a boil up).

15 units for a night is definitely wrong.

sep11guy

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#1320350 9-Jun-2015 14:59

UPDATE !!

The plumber just finished.

He said it was leaking in the roof , and that the reducing walve was worn out which he changed and then he changed some "filters at kitchen end "

so for now, it seems that the issue is sorted but i cannot be 100% certain till i verify this myself thru readings which i ll start monitoring today when i get home and will do it over 3-4 days.

Thanks a lot for recommending me to the right path !!

:)

Jase2985

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#1320357 9-Jun-2015 15:13

where was it leaking to?

i cant see how a reducing valve could be the cause

is your system like this or the one below

sep11guy

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#1320362 9-Jun-2015 15:15

Jase2985: where was it leaking to?

Hmm i donno i didnt ask cuz i got happy and kinda missed asking the questions. lol .

on a side note : my update post was 500th post and i got a badge too !! yipee ;) haha

Jase2985

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#1320368 9-Jun-2015 15:23

see my edit above

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