Alarming nuke question

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#2949795 2-Aug-2022 17:42

Proliferation has been boosted by...

Recent lesson that if you give up your nuclear weapons for a guarantee.
Handshakes, Paper, Promises, do not stop bullets.
Even on doorstep of supposedly civilized Europe, where trade and interdependence was supposed to assure.
Never Again.

Maybe nuclear weapons are the guarantee you need ?
Even Japan has been reconsidering if it needs such with Russia, China, even Nork posturing.

If Iran finally gets them, then Saudi are probably planning for that.

Like we had with India and Pakistan, one gets them because other might, so they both get them.
Then anyone else who has same concern.

Suppose we could look at who is proposing to build new nuclear plants.
Nuclear as green energy may not be only motive.

tdgeek

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#2949803 2-Aug-2022 18:07

MikeB4:

If there were no direct Southern Hemisphere strikes the radiation, smoke, dust, ash would slowly bleed across the equator as a slow creeping death. Trade would collapse. Medicines would last about 6 months then we are screwed. Communications will be back to pre 20TH century. Or food supply would be hopeless in a short due to crop failures, breakdown of the maritime food chain and loss of foundations of the food chain.

That could happen but who knows. In NZ we can get by with air, water and food, and electricity. Use our beef, lamb and pork and we grow our own veggies.

Trade could collapse but those that produce more oil and other stuff that they cannot use themselves would trade. Its not like a nuke was blasted upon every city in the world. Each country would need to manage a 100% local only economy, but that they could import some stuff and export some stuff. This is where the UN or a new form would need to act. Inevitably it would cause an austerity world.

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#2949819 2-Aug-2022 18:24

neb:
Dingbatt:

I’d suggest we promote the world map that had us located in the Indian Ocean.

I suggest we align ourselves with Russia, so we'd be targeted by US nukes rather than Russian ones. The US would nuke Australia instead of us ("Noo Zeeland is Arstralia isn't it?") and we'd be (relatively) safe.

I had a US girlfriend once. Went to a kids birthday party her Uncle said he went to Sydney for R+R. Thought NZ was an island a swim off the coast. Her Brother in law thought we were next to England

Ge0rge

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#2949826 2-Aug-2022 18:42

tdgeek:
That could happen but who knows. In NZ we can get by with air, water and food, and electricity. Use our beef, lamb and pork and we grow our own veggies.

The overwhelming majority of our population live in a concrete jungle, about as far away from the production of beef, lamb and pork as you can get. Once the fuel runs out (we don't make that here), there will be no way to transport the produce we make much further than a day or two by horse.

The lights may stay on for a while, but without spare parts, that will become less and less reliable. Those with PV and batteries might fare a little better, and those with PV and without batteries will be looking at how they can override the anti-islanding technology in their inverters.

The earth will carry on, probably better for being rid of us.

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#2949832 2-Aug-2022 18:54

Ge0rge:

The earth will carry on, probably better for being rid of us.

It could be a time when sanity prevails, as it has to

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2949842 2-Aug-2022 19:32

Rikkitic:

The secretary-general of the United Nations has just issued a warning that the world is on the verge of nuclear annihilation. What would happen to us here if there was a major nuke exchange in Europe/America? Not total destruction, but substantial attacks on cities and military targets on both sides. How would that affect New Zealand? Radioactive cloud? Climate damage? Collateral effects of strikes on Australia? Would it become On the Beach here or could we get through it cockroach-fashion?

A quick google search reveals countries with Nuclear weapons as:

- USA

- Russia

- France

- China

- UK

- Pakistan

- India

- Israel

- North Korea

I think it would be safe to say it Nuclear world war broke out, the planet is likely more stuffed than it is now.

Best course of action, put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye....😁

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tdgeek

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#2949845 2-Aug-2022 19:35

WyleECoyoteNZ:

A quick google search reveals countries with Nuclear weapons as:

- USA

- Russia

- France

- China

- UK

- Pakistan

- India

- Israel

- North Korea

I think it would be safe to say it Nuclear world war broke out, the planet is likely more stuffed than it is now.

Best course of action, put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye....😁

They wont all attack each other. its getting a bit sensationalist. The smart ones will respond and defend, the dumb ones will get annexed.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2949847 2-Aug-2022 19:36

Ge0rge:
tdgeek:

That could happen but who knows. In NZ we can get by with air, water and food, and electricity. Use our beef, lamb and pork and we grow our own veggies.

The overwhelming majority of our population live in a concrete jungle, about as far away from the production of beef, lamb and pork as you can get. Once the fuel runs out (we don't make that here), there will be no way to transport the produce we make much further than a day or two by horse.

The lights may stay on for a while, but without spare parts, that will become less and less reliable. Those with PV and batteries might fare a little better, and those with PV and without batteries will be looking at how they can override the anti-islanding technology in their inverters.

The earth will carry on, probably better for being rid of us.

Another google suggests, Nitrogen Fertilizer is produced mostly by 4 countries, all of which have Nuclear weapons....

Those biggest 4 producers are:

- China

- USA

- India

- Russia

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2949849 2-Aug-2022 19:38

tdgeek:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

A quick google search reveals countries with Nuclear weapons as:

- USA

- Russia

- France

- China

- UK

- Pakistan

- India

- Israel

- North Korea

I think it would be safe to say it Nuclear world war broke out, the planet is likely more stuffed than it is now.

Best course of action, put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye....😁

They wont all attack each other. its getting a bit sensationalist. The smart ones will respond and defend, the dumb ones will get annexed.

I'd wager once Nukes start getting flung around, any sense of common sense is toast...

If you have the most, you take out those you can, before being taken out yourself

neb

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#2949959 2-Aug-2022 21:59

I've just listened to part of the speech that started this thread. It was from a speech given at the opening of the 2022 NPT (Non-proliferation Treary) Review Conference, in which the secretary-general puts the NPT into context and explains its continuing relevance and importance today. That was all. There's nothing else there, it was a state-of-the-world comment on the relevance of the NPT, not a warning that we're on the brink of nuclear war.

May as well close the thread down now. False alarm, nothing to see here.

mattwnz

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#2949963 2-Aug-2022 22:15

Typical media and click bait headlines.

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#2949981 3-Aug-2022 06:30

If people want to listen or read decent stuff about nuclear weapons and proliferation then I can recommend the Arms Control Wonk site and associated media/Twitter accounts.

Plus 38North if you're super interested in North Korean stuff.

antoniosk

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#2949989 3-Aug-2022 08:41

afe66:
Handsomedan:

I am quite surprised we haven't seen remakes of films like "The Day After" etc.

It's feeling like the 80's when I was in high school and we did "Nuclear War" drills - effectively the same as earthquake drills but ensuring you were away from the windows and had your eyes shut and ears covered.

I always thought they were weird - if there was a nearby detonation, you'd be radioactive ash anyway.

The British nuclear war film "Threads" is much worse than the day after... Very bleak. Goes into some events a generation or two after war as well.

For me this film is one of the most frightening ones I ever saw. Great for me as a young teenager but my parents preferred educated kids

I remember seeing this movie - we were told to by our English teacher so we could discuss as the topic of the day.

Was almost as bad as The Exorcist for me....

________

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darylblake

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#2950005 3-Aug-2022 09:09

This story is more noise and sabre rattling. The current situation is basically a stalemate.

Both sides are well aware that using these weapons is not an option as it will result in these weapons being used against them in retaliation. E.g. There are no winners.

In short, if a war with the widespread use of these weapons is to break out, there will be huge problems and implications. Even IF one side defeated the other and survived, can you imagine the internal chaos.

So in short, it's not really a practical option at all to use these weapons. And in the event that this occurs, consider yourself either dead, suffering or living in a very different world.

Mis-calculation is probably a more likely scenario.

tdgeek

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#2950008 3-Aug-2022 09:20

darylblake:

This story is more noise and sabre rattling. The current situation is basically a stalemate.

Both sides are well aware that using these weapons is not an option as it will result in these weapons being used against them in retaliation. E.g. There are no winners.

In short, if a war with the widespread use of these weapons is to break out, there will be huge problems and implications. Even IF one side defeated the other and survived, can you imagine the internal chaos.

So in short, it's not really a practical option at all to use these weapons. And in the event that this occurs, consider yourself either dead, suffering or living in a very different world.

Mis-calculation is probably a more likely scenario.

Agree

No one picks a fistfight knowing that they will both die from it. The Cold War was far more precarious, and for obvious reasons it never happened. Putin will continue to fight with bullets and re create his apparent legacy that hurts his precious ego. A point may come when the citizens have had enough if the military quietly feels the same.

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