Being stopped, detained and searched in the Warehouse

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420 posts

Ultimate Geek

#847546 30-Jun-2013 23:21

I have occasionally thought about this and what my response might be. The view I have formed is that I would:

a) Agree to accompany the store employee back to the store quietly and cause no trouble.

b) But before doing that I would inform the detaining employee that:

1) If they find nothing in my possession that belongs to them and has not been paid for I would immediately call the Police and lay a complaint against the store over my wrongful detainment.
2) That I would then lodge a private prosecution against them for damages to my character.

If they still then wished to pursue the matter I would go quietly and submit to the search, but repeat the above when in the store and in front of a security camera to record the event. Alternatively record the even on your smartphone as evidence.

The store has the right to protect its possessions, but we have rights also.

Cheers Mike

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#847581 1-Jul-2013 08:43

mruane: I have occasionally thought about this and what my response might be. The view I have formed is that I would:

a) Agree to accompany the store employee back to the store quietly and cause no trouble.

b) But before doing that I would inform the detaining employee that:

1) If they find nothing in my possession that belongs to them and has not been paid for I would immediately call the Police and lay a complaint against the store over my wrongful detainment.
2) That I would then lodge a private prosecution against them for damages to my character.

If they still then wished to pursue the matter I would go quietly and submit to the search, but repeat the above when in the store and in front of a security camera to record the event. Alternatively record the even on your smartphone as evidence.

The store has the right to protect its possessions, but we have rights also.

Cheers Mike

This would be completely unsuccessful. You can't lay a complaint against them for wrongful detainment if they ask you to accompany them back and you agree, there is no detainment involved. And for the second, I don't believe that's actually something you can file suit over - unless you planned on filing libel/slander charges, in which case they could simply respond that they made no public statement whether you were guilty or not and your case would be dismissed. All in all, your idea would not work.

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#847601 1-Jul-2013 09:35

I actually don't see any harm and agree with another poster that we are only getting one side of it.

I also don't see the point in some of these suggestions it all seems rather ego driven and self righteous, maybe reality is different to what people would actually do.

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mruane

420 posts

Ultimate Geek

#847614 1-Jul-2013 10:17

Kyanar:
mruane: I have occasionally thought about this and what my response might be. The view I have formed is that I would:

a) Agree to accompany the store employee back to the store quietly and cause no trouble.

b) But before doing that I would inform the detaining employee that:

1) If they find nothing in my possession that belongs to them and has not been paid for I would immediately call the Police and lay a complaint against the store over my wrongful detainment.
2) That I would then lodge a private prosecution against them for damages to my character.

If they still then wished to pursue the matter I would go quietly and submit to the search, but repeat the above when in the store and in front of a security camera to record the event. Alternatively record the even on your smartphone as evidence.

The store has the right to protect its possessions, but we have rights also.

Cheers Mike

This would be completely unsuccessful. You can't lay a complaint against them for wrongful detainment if they ask you to accompany them back and you agree, there is no detainment involved. And for the second, I don't believe that's actually something you can file suit over - unless you planned on filing libel/slander charges, in which case they could simply respond that they made no public statement whether you were guilty or not and your case would be dismissed. All in all, your idea would not work.

Thanks for that Kyanar - obviously had not thought this through. What you seem to be saying is that if you know you are innocent, stand your ground and require them to apprehend you against your will!!! in other words - walk away...

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#847618 1-Jul-2013 10:36

mruane: Thanks for that Kyanar - obviously had not thought this through. What you seem to be saying is that if you know you are innocent, stand your ground and require them to apprehend you against your will!!! in other words - walk away...

If you're going to be difficult at a store you like to frequent, just keep in mind they are within their rights to trespass you.

Klipspringer

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#847641 1-Jul-2013 11:06

I personally dont see anything wrong with a bag search.

jpoc: Today, my wife was stopped by a security goon in the Warehouse, Glenfield. She was not allowed to leave, was accused of stealing an item and forced to turn out her handbag. All in front of the other shoppers in the store.

jpoc:
For a woman, to be confronted by a large, intimidating man and being forced to reveal the intimate contents of her handbag to that man and to any bystanders, there is also a degree of sexual intimidation and humiliation about such a situation.

Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

People have no issues with bag searches at airports. But at places like the warehouse everybody jumps onto the "my rights" bandwagon.

Your wife should have simply just popped open her bag, it would have saved herself a lot of trouble and humiliation.

As others have said, there are two sides to every story. We have not heard from the warehouse. I do however get the impression you have tried turning a simple bag search into something its really not. "Sexual Intimidation" Jeez.

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#847642 1-Jul-2013 11:13

If its such an issue, use online shopping.

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jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#847644 1-Jul-2013 11:35

Klipspringer:
Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

You haven't accepted anything when you walk in the store, those signs have no standing as they cannot prove you have read them, or more importantly, understood them.

Klipspringer

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#847674 1-Jul-2013 12:58

jfanning:
Klipspringer:
Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

You haven't accepted anything when you walk in the store, those signs have no standing as they cannot prove you have read them, or more importantly, understood them.

The signs are no different from pubs or clubs that have a dress code policy in place. The last sign I saw said something along the lines of no beanies, hoodies, or low jeans in here please ..(Raumati waterfront bar in Kapiti - Good on them!)

As its private property they can ask you to take the hoodie off (you entitled to object), but then they have the right to trespass you out of there. And if they like, trespass you permanently.

It does not matter if you saw the sign or not. Its their terms of entry.

You don't have the right to enter their property and decline to remove your hoodie. In the same way. You don't have the right to shop at the warehouse and refuse their terms and conditions. You on private property, they make the rules. Not you.

1080p

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#847679 1-Jul-2013 13:07

Klipspringer: I personally dont see anything wrong with a bag search.

jpoc: Today, my wife was stopped by a security goon in the Warehouse, Glenfield. She was not allowed to leave, was accused of stealing an item and forced to turn out her handbag. All in front of the other shoppers in the store.

jpoc:
For a woman, to be confronted by a large, intimidating man and being forced to reveal the intimate contents of her handbag to that man and to any bystanders, there is also a degree of sexual intimidation and humiliation about such a situation.

Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

People have no issues with bag searches at airports. But at places like the warehouse everybody jumps onto the "my rights" bandwagon.

Your wife should have simply just popped open her bag, it would have saved herself a lot of trouble and humiliation.

As others have said, there are two sides to every story. We have not heard from the warehouse. I do however get the impression you have tried turning a simple bag search into something its really not. "Sexual Intimidation" Jeez.

You don't accept the terms on those signs by simply walking through the door. I'm sure you would agree that you don't enter a binding contract to allow me to spank you over my knee if my T-shirt says that you all those who walk past me agree to being spanked over my knee.

Bag searches at airports are different. If you refuse, border control refuses to permit you to fly. People desire to fly, ergo...

A store is most welcome to refuse to permit me to shop unless I agree to a bag search. It is their property after all. They will lose a lot of business which is why they do not and why a polite refusal to a search is perfectly within your rights as a private citizen.

There are a number of different methods at a store's disposal to prevent loss, none of which involve an invasion of my privacy.

Klipspringer

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#847687 1-Jul-2013 13:22

1080p:
You don't accept the terms on those signs by simply walking through the door. I'm sure you would agree that you don't enter a binding contract to allow me to spank you over my knee if my T-shirt says that you all those who walk past me agree to being spanked over my knee.

Yes agreed, you may not have accepted the terms.
And as I said above, you have a right not to allow a bag search. But then this gives them the opportunity to enforce their rights.

I don't see the issue with a bag search.

We should be happy that we are allowed to enter places like this here in NZ with our bags. In other countries they make you leave your bags at the door, in secure lockers. Give you a voucher with a number to collect them again. Its a real pain, standing in line just to drop your bag off, or to pick it up again after you finished shopping.

I cant help but think that shopping in this country is heading in the same direction. Come on guys, the odd bag search is really not that bad.

1080p:
There are a number of different methods at a store's disposal to prevent loss, none of which involve an invasion of my privacy.

Please name one. Keen to hear. Most places I know of where shoplifting is far worse than here have all resorted to the "leave your bag here" system. Others employ more security guards which walk the store.

jfanning

438 posts

Ultimate Geek

#847691 1-Jul-2013 13:29

Klipspringer:
1080p:
You don't accept the terms on those signs by simply walking through the door. I'm sure you would agree that you don't enter a binding contract to allow me to spank you over my knee if my T-shirt says that you all those who walk past me agree to being spanked over my knee.

Yes agreed, you may not have accepted the terms.
And as I said above, you have a right not to allow a bag search. But then this gives them the opportunity to enforce their rights.

I don't see the issue with a bag search.

We should be happy that we are allowed to enter places like this here in NZ with our bags. In other countries they make you leave your bags at the door, in secure lockers. Give you a voucher with a number to collect them again. Its a real pain, standing in line just to drop your bag off, or to pick it up again after you finished shopping.

I cant help but think that shopping in this country is heading in the same direction. Come on guys, the odd bag search is really not that bad.

What countries do that? The only country that I have been asked for a bag search is in NZ (the Warehouse actually), I refused. Why should you be happy with someone accusing you of something when you haven't done anything wrong.

ubergeeknz

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Vocus

#847696 1-Jul-2013 13:30

jfanning:
Klipspringer:
Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

You haven't accepted anything when you walk in the store, those signs have no standing as they cannot prove you have read them, or more importantly, understood them.

The whole point is moot as the management can trespass you at their sole discretion. So if you like to shop there, it's your choice as to whether you accept the house rules or not.

Basically, if someone is being a dick and you think the bag search is unreasonable, say no and leave. The chances of getting trespassed are slim, but you might (especially if they think you stole from them). But they can't legally chase you down and detain you. Keep in mind you may be trespassed from the entire shopping centre, too. Up to you if that's worth making a stand or not.

1080p

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#847704 1-Jul-2013 13:46

ubergeeknz:
jfanning:
Klipspringer:
Refusing a bag search is not going to go down well and its obviously going to make yourself look like you trying to hide someting. Surely its easier to just allow them to do the bag search? Afterall she had nothing to hide? The terms & conditions when entering the warehouse clearly state that they do bag searches. You accept those terms by walking in through the door.

You haven't accepted anything when you walk in the store, those signs have no standing as they cannot prove you have read them, or more importantly, understood them.

The whole point is moot as the management can trespass you at their sole discretion. So if you like to shop there, it's your choice as to whether you accept the house rules or not.

Basically, if someone is being a dick and you think the bag search is unreasonable, say no and leave. The chances of getting trespassed are slim, but you might (especially if they think you stole from them). But they can't legally chase you down and detain you. Keep in mind you may be trespassed from the entire shopping centre, too. Up to you if that's worth making a stand or not.

This is true. Most stores will not trespass you because it is bad for business to randomly trespass potentially paying customers because they don't agree to a search. If you are a thief, however, most stores will catch on sooner or later and then a trespass is worth it for them regardless if you agree to a search or not.

Jas777

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Ultimate Geek

#847712 1-Jul-2013 14:01

jfanning,

I have had the leave the bag at front desk or have your bag covered in a clear wrapper happen in Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia. Normally done in the big stores like the warehouse here but much bigger. These stores tend to have groceries as well as goods.

Didn't really go into big stores in Europe so can't remember if they did it there.

I would imagine that with the price of smaller electronic goods/accessories stopping thiefs is more important.

As an aside I would also think the para-military style security guards in place might be just as much deterent as putting bags outside shop.

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