Climate Change Thread

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2798 posts

Uber Geek

#3108640 27-Jul-2023 08:13

SaltyNZ:

cddt:

I'll be quite happy to bike to work (rain or shine) when it is safer to do so. Unfortunately the government/council has not done anything about adding physically separated cycleways on most main routes (yes I hear there is one out west but I don't live or work out there).

Just another example of something we definitely can do if only our government would get off its butt and do it. Also another thing that a National/Act government won't do, and will probably attempt to roll back wherever separated cycle lanes have been carved off roads because the National Party has no ideas except for roads, roads, roads, to the point that it's memeable.

Working for Auckland Transport, what I see from the public/political class astounds me. Everyday we ask the question about climate change/adaptation during project consultations, general direction and the answers we get from the public and our councillors astound. The lack of desire to change, the complete denial that something is wrong, or that if we just delay the implementation we may get more people on board. Everytime we do attempt to do something progress we get slammed in the media.

Now, AT does a lot of well intended things really badly but it doesn't help that our political masters flip flop and funding is so archaic here that it makes it hard to deliver anything but roads.

sen8or

1787 posts

Uber Geek

#3108643 27-Jul-2023 08:17

Sadly, even if we (I.e NZ) do everything thats needed, it will have little real world impact other than maybe a bit of flag waving "look at us" -

We contribute about 0.2% of CO2 to an atmosphere that has 0.04% carbon in it. Stopping our contribution is extremely unlikely to have any meaningful impact. Some call climate change NZ's "nuclear free moment", perhaps so, our stance could be world leading. Has our stance on nuclear made an ounce of difference to the production of nuclear weapons or the use and production of nuclear power plants?

Until the large CO2 producers get on board, there is little hope of changing anything. Will international pressure effect the larger nations efforts? Who knows, depends on who is in power and what their goals are.

Its not a bad thing to try and do right, not at all (and as I work for a car dealership that sells several brands of EVs, I'm all for people buying them), but I am equally realistic as to what impact we can have.

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

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2degrees

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#3108649 27-Jul-2023 08:24

sen8or:

Sadly, even if we (I.e NZ) do everything thats needed, it will have little real world impact other than maybe a bit of flag waving "look at us" -

True.

I'll address this comment in a moment, but right now I've got to go off and rob a bank. The amount of money I can carry away is a drop in the ocean of the global economy so it won't make any difference. Besides, other people rob banks so I'd be a fool not to do it too.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

MikeB4

18435 posts

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#3108656 27-Jul-2023 08:38

The comment I hear often(not just here) that what ever we do in Aotearoa won't make a difference is a cop out for folks that don't want change and apparently don't give a toss about future generations.

If we do nothing we will achieve nothing.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3108670 27-Jul-2023 09:39

MikeB4: The comment I hear often(not just here) that what ever we do in Aotearoa won't make a difference is a cop out for folks that don't want change and apparently don't give a toss about future generations.

If we do nothing we will achieve nothing.

Until China and India reduce their emissions it is all futile. India is still galloping upwards and China after a COVID plateau, continues to ramp up coal power. Between them, China and India account for 36% of the world's emissions.

The following countries have reduced their emissions compared to 1990:

USA, Japan, Russia, France, Germany and UK.

China has increased emissions post 1990 by 414%, India 341%.

I know the argument that it takes everyone, large and small, to make change. However China and India are not looking at NZ and the G7 countries slashing emissions has not influenced them so no wonder.

NZ energy related emissions are already low. We have highly renewable power generation. A steadily improving fuel efficiency in transport and growing use of BEV and so on. Our emissions are heavily from agriculture. So... shall we cut our agriculture? If so how will we replace the lost national productivity? Things like health and education need to be paid for. Any drop in our agricultural production will simply be made up by some other nation's production and they will likely have higher emissions than us.

NZ Methane emissions in 1990 were 28.101 and 2020 30.472. We're not the baddies.

Azzura

603 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3108673 27-Jul-2023 09:41

MikeB4: The comment I hear often(not just here) that what ever we do in Aotearoa won't make a difference is a cop out for folks that don't want change and apparently don't give a toss about future generations.

If we do nothing we will achieve nothing.

I hear and read the exact same thing on Canadian forums and comments on Reddit. Canada only contributes blah blah blah amount....look at China though. Canadians are like why should we reduce. And if you mention the per capita amount....they go on about how that is a BS measurement.

I drive a PHEV Hybrid for 76% of my driving. I just ordered an EBike... Wife and I are in the very near future putting solar panels up and probably batteries. We didn't have kids.

It boggles my mind the gov isn't doing some sort of subsidy for solar panels. Until, I realize the power companies are most likely in their ear tellin em not too...

I've seen 5 people in a room can't agree on stuff....I honestly, think we're screwed! All I can say is watch out when the food stops coming in....

Canadian forest fires have burned 10,000,000 hectares (so far) of forest = 100,000 km2

For scale...

New Zealand's total land area = 268,710 km2

The North Island is 113,729 km2...

MikeB4

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#3108677 27-Jul-2023 09:52

johno1234:

Until China and India reduce their emissions it is all futile. India is still galloping upwards and China after a COVID plateau, continues to ramp up coal power. Between them, China and India account for 36% of the world's emissions.

The following countries have reduced their emissions compared to 1990:

USA, Japan, Russia, France, Germany and UK.

China has increased emissions post 1990 by 414%, India 341%.

I know the argument that it takes everyone, large and small, to make change. However China and India are not looking at NZ and the G7 countries slashing emissions has not influenced them so no wonder.

NZ energy related emissions are already low. We have highly renewable power generation. A steadily improving fuel efficiency in transport and growing use of BEV and so on. Our emissions are heavily from agriculture. So... shall we cut our agriculture? If so how will we replace the lost national productivity? Things like health and education need to be paid for. Any drop in our agricultural production will simply be made up by some other nation's production and they will likely have higher emissions than us.

NZ Methane emissions in 1990 were 28.101 and 2020 30.472. We're not the baddies.

So your goal is to do nothing.

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MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#3108679 27-Jul-2023 10:01

SJB:

The single best thing you can do for the planet is - don't have any children.

In my case, that would require a few >70th trimester terminations. That would save me lot of money, but I've heard they are illegal!

But seriously. If everyone took this approach, the human race would cease to exist. Isn't that one of the impacts we are trying to avoid?

Are we aren't interested in saving people, then we may as well just party on while we can, and the planet will sort itself out after we're gone. It's been through worse before and life springs back.

Mike

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3108681 27-Jul-2023 10:13

MikeB4:

johno1234:

Until China and India reduce their emissions it is all futile. India is still galloping upwards and China after a COVID plateau, continues to ramp up coal power. Between them, China and India account for 36% of the world's emissions.

The following countries have reduced their emissions compared to 1990:

USA, Japan, Russia, France, Germany and UK.

China has increased emissions post 1990 by 414%, India 341%.

I know the argument that it takes everyone, large and small, to make change. However China and India are not looking at NZ and the G7 countries slashing emissions has not influenced them so no wonder.

NZ energy related emissions are already low. We have highly renewable power generation. A steadily improving fuel efficiency in transport and growing use of BEV and so on. Our emissions are heavily from agriculture. So... shall we cut our agriculture? If so how will we replace the lost national productivity? Things like health and education need to be paid for. Any drop in our agricultural production will simply be made up by some other nation's production and they will likely have higher emissions than us.

NZ Methane emissions in 1990 were 28.101 and 2020 30.472. We're not the baddies.

So your goal is to do nothing.

No. I try to avoid polluting. Have since I was a kid.

My goal is also to avoid harming the economy while achieving zero benefit on emissions.

timmyh

188 posts

Master Geek

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#3108682 27-Jul-2023 10:14

China and India are still developing, of course they have to use energy to do so. Also, China makes lots of stuff for the rest of the world so that has a huge impact. The much better statistic is CO2 emissions per capita and on that front they are well behind the US, as are we actually. Some examples below are interesting, major

CO2 emissions (Tons per annum per capita 2019 - source = Google)

Canada: 15.43
Aust: 15.25
US: 14.67
Russia: 11.80
Germany: 7.91
China: 7.61
NZ: 6.83
UK: 5.22
France: 4.46
Mexico: 3.59
Brazil: 2.85
India: 1.78

In just 2023 alone, China will add more new renewable energy than the entire amount the US has installed to date.

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#3108685 27-Jul-2023 10:23

timmyh:

Also, China makes lots of stuff for the rest of the world so that has a huge impact.

A very important point: a lot of China's emissions are actually our emissions.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Geektastic

17942 posts

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#3108690 27-Jul-2023 10:31

johno1234:
SJB:

The single best thing you can do for the planet is - don't have any children.

Unfortunately when you are old and infirm, there'll be nobody to look after you and you will have a long sad and lonely end of life.

I see no connection.

My surviving parent is a 24 hour journey away. None of my siblings live in the same country that she does.

If that was her plan (it wasn’t) it failed miserably.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3108697 27-Jul-2023 10:47

SaltyNZ:

timmyh:

Also, China makes lots of stuff for the rest of the world so that has a huge impact.

A very important point: a lot of China's emissions are actually our emissions.

If the emissions are pinned to the consumer not the producer then 75% of our agriculture emissions would be removed from our bill.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3108699 27-Jul-2023 10:49

Geektastic:
johno1234:

Unfortunately when you are old and infirm, there'll be nobody to look after you and you will have a long sad and lonely end of life.

I see no connection.

My surviving parent is a 24 hour journey away. None of my siblings live in the same country that she does.

If that was her plan (it wasn’t) it failed miserably.

It is not about one's own children. It is about *any* children. Insufficient staff left to care for oldies and insufficient taxpayers to fund them.

Benoire

2798 posts

Uber Geek

#3108700 27-Jul-2023 10:50

And this is timely from the boss:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/132619911/auckland-transport-boss-says-city-wont-even-get-halfway-to-2030-climate-targets-at-this-rate

There needs to be a siginficant political push otherwise Agencies such as AT will not be able to implement otherwise we get classed as technocrats doing things unhinged and without public backing, despite following the evidence provided by our climate scientists and partners.

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