Smash and grabs at MHJ

Forums › Off topic › Smash and grabs at MHJ

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 16

469 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#3078633 22-May-2023 14:31

Kookoo:

Handsomedan:

My 18 year old son was in Maccas with two of his team mates after a game of football on Saturday, over in a South Eastern part of Auckland - all dressed in the same tracksuits/sports gear and obviously not from the location they were in - a man came in and told him (not in this way) to please move out of the way.
My son's reply was "Sorry mate", then he moved out of his way - at which point the person threatened to smash his face in and called him a number of anti-Caucasian slurs and then grabbed a random bag of food off the counter and walked out, shouldering past my son's team mate on the way out (clearly looking for a reaction so he could "justify" beating the crap out of these kids).

It wasn't like this pre-Covid. Or at least not in the same brazen way.

Needless to say, the food the guy took wasn't his and nobody questioned him, for fear of escalation to violence.

When was "Once were warriors" set again? Mid-eighties? Nothing has change in 40 years then.

Punishment available to courts vs punishment handed out is completely different. The punishment handed out has gotten less and less over the years, with some getting of with home arrest vs back in the 90s going to jail. Its clear, the youths are not afraid of the police or others as they know nothing will happen to them. Slap on the wrist, records sealed when they turn 18 and no one is the wiser. There are gangs that operate on this basis, one being U17 gang, meaning all members are under 17 knowing full well what they can get away with.

You also can't argue that something giving someone a smack in the 90s won't be judged or worse, charged with assault if they were to interfere with a robbery in progress today.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3078698 22-May-2023 15:55

Kookoo:

Neither the society nor the law have grown soft. Show me one example where the law has substantially reduced the punishment available to courts for theft, burglary, aggravated assault and the likes, over the last 40-50 years.

I can't agree with this. Labour has made quite a noise about reducing the number of prison sentences that are handed out. It's a nice idea, but it has consequences. To see that, you'd have to see the numbers of arrests that don't lead to prosecutions, or prosecutions where non-conviction or alternative justice is applied.

If you don't feel Covid, lockdowns and the resulting mental impact of all of that, aren't having an impact on crime numbers, I am not sure what to tell you. I would rate the mental health of Kiwi's the worst I've ever seen in my 40+ years. It's wildly concerning.

Again though, the issue isn't the punishment handed out afterward (though there needs to be consequences for actions). It's the fact it's happening in the first place and what's led/leading to that.

The facts remain, for this to be have been a daily occurrence for more than a year, means it's not a priority for those who decide what priorities should be.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3078706 22-May-2023 16:21

MikeB4:
Wombat1:

Saw this article on the news this morning. I thought this mothers comments pretty much summed it up:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300873473/family-considers-leaving-nz-after-son-chased-home-threatened-with-stabbing

"As far as I understand, the offenders were referred to Youth Aid."

“It seems that the offenders are well protected with wraparound services, yet the victims receive no support,” the mother said."

So what is the solution wanted here? Put these teens in prison, give them a record and then of course don't give them a job because they have a criminal record. Then society condemns them for being on income support and alienates them.

The status quo is not deterring them from their current trajectory. The sort of crimes we see daily now were very uncommon a decade ago when there were consequences to offending. Currently there are little to no consequences so why would the perpetrators change a thing?

Eva888

2427 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3078707 22-May-2023 16:21

Jails just breed better criminals. After two strikes, lock them up in a facility for two years grouped by age including the young ones, think of it as a Government Boarding School to become valuable members of society. No stigma attached and no record of it later. One year to be compulsory.

Except for doing lessons, no internet and social media and no phones. One five minute call per day to family.

Give them tasks to do that will count as points for earlier release by only up to one year, plus a reward system that also rewards one other person in the group for each good action and achievement.

Any problems they cause adds days to their incarceration and also punishes one other innocent person in their group, to teach them that their bad actions inflict suffering on others...just like in the real world they are hurting and stealing from.

School them in reading and subjects to help them in future and everything they learn counts towards earlier release. No sitting around but fully planned days from breakfast till evening. Sport on weekends and an outside counsellor on hand to guide them if having problems. Family visits once a week.

When they are finally let out, six months compulsory mentoring towards higher education, an apprenticeship or work.

Parents of bad younger kids should also be held accountable and made to attend parenting classes and to get other help they require including upskilling aid.

These kids and youth need practical discipline and training, they need to be taught what social consequences actually feel like They have none of these things at home and their lives are a just a swirl of poverty, illiteracy and freedom to do as they please with no boundaries. You can’t blame the kids when they have no signposts to follow and no goals taught them.

When you sit down and think about the future of these kids it makes you want to weep. I think that each of us that have had a decent chance in life to make it, owe it to society to get involved with a child mentoring organisation like Big Sister or Big Brother and share with these kids some encouragement and wisdom to give them a view of a different life they can aspire to. No child comes into this world bad.

I did similar many years ago as a volunteer hospital visitor. There was a young teenage girl who was on drugs, stealing and in and out of a mental facility for self harm. I took her to my home a number of times as she kept running away. To my surprise some years later while I was overseas she came to my home to see me and the kids gave her my contact. She rang to tell me that she had turned her life around was off drugs and had a job and that she knew I would be very happy and proud of her. I was and can never forget the joy of that call.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3078710 22-May-2023 16:27

Eva888: Jails just breed better criminals. After two strikes, lock them up in a facility for two years grouped by age including the young ones, think of it as a Government Boarding School to become valuable members of society. No stigma attached and no record of it later. One year to be compulsory.

Except for doing lessons, no internet and social media and no phones. One five minute call per day to family.

Give them tasks to do that will count as points for earlier release by only up to one year, plus a reward system that also rewards one other person in the group for each good action and achievement.

Any problems they cause adds days to their incarceration and also punishes one other innocent person in their group, to teach them that their bad actions inflict suffering on others...just like in the real world they are hurting and stealing from.

School them in reading and subjects to help them in future and everything they learn counts towards earlier release. No sitting around but fully planned days from breakfast till evening. Sport on weekends and an outside counsellor on hand to guide them if having problems. Family visits once a week.

When they are finally let out, six months compulsory mentoring towards higher education, an apprenticeship or work.

Parents of bad younger kids should also be held accountable and made to attend parenting classes and to get other help they require including upskilling aid.

These kids and youth need practical discipline and training, they need to be taught what social consequences actually feel like They have none of these things at home and their lives are a just a swirl of poverty, illiteracy and freedom to do as they please with no boundaries. You can’t blame the kids when they have no signposts to follow and no goals taught them.

When you sit down and think about the future of these kids it makes you want to weep. I think that each of us that have had a decent chance in life to make it, owe it to society to get involved with a child mentoring organisation like Big Sister or Big Brother and share with these kids some encouragement and wisdom to give them a view of a different life they can aspire to. No child comes into this world bad.

I did similar many years ago as a volunteer hospital visitor. There was a young teenage girl who was on drugs, stealing and in and out of a mental facility for self harm. I took her to my home a number of times as she kept running away. To my surprise some years later while I was overseas she came to my home to see me and the kids gave her my contact. She rang to tell me that she had turned her life around was off drugs and had a job and that she knew I would be very happy and proud of her. I was and can never forget the joy of that call.

We used to have borstals which were similar to this. Effectively a locked in boarding school with zero shit accepted from the students.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3078711 22-May-2023 16:29

networkn:

Kookoo:

Neither the society nor the law have grown soft. Show me one example where the law has substantially reduced the punishment available to courts for theft, burglary, aggravated assault and the likes, over the last 40-50 years.

I can't agree with this. Labour has made quite a noise about reducing the number of prison sentences that are handed out. It's a nice idea, but it has consequences. To see that, you'd have to see the numbers of arrests that don't lead to prosecutions, or prosecutions where non-conviction or alternative justice is applied.

If you don't feel Covid, lockdowns and the resulting mental impact of all of that, aren't having an impact on crime numbers, I am not sure what to tell you. I would rate the mental health of Kiwi's the worst I've ever seen in my 40+ years. It's wildly concerning.

Again though, the issue isn't the punishment handed out afterward (though there needs to be consequences for actions). It's the fact it's happening in the first place and what's led/leading to that.

The facts remain, for this to be have been a daily occurrence for more than a year, means it's not a priority for those who decide what priorities should be.

keep in mind that police have been told to reduce arrests due to jail over population.

i would not say its just mental health. a lot of the role models, leadership and parenting went awol during covid. then there is all the stressors from cost of living. but whats really compounded it here is the housing market. a lot of people have been in a big squeeze for a long time, then covid made that worse. it also meant that certain group of people have done very well out of the situation at other peoples expense, resulting in a fair bit of backlash.

Kookoo

787 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3078716 22-May-2023 16:41

Eva888: Jails just breed better criminals. After two strikes, lock them up in a facility for two years grouped by age including the young ones, think of it as a Government Boarding School to become valuable members of society. No stigma attached and no record of it later. One year to be compulsory.

Except for doing lessons, no internet and social media and no phones. One five minute call per day to family.

This. In my previous life I worked in such a faciilty, for a fairly brief preiod of a few months, overseas. The psychological theory behind this is very interesting, and the results were remarkable. BUT it required massive funding which the government was providing. We're talking 1 to 2 staff ratio at any given point - one staff per two "inmates", with the ability to beef up the staff numbers to offer 1-to-1 coverage. It was a non-threatening environment, village-like setting. The staff were extremely well-trained, and the key point - in a male-only facility most staff were young women. It was a cultural thing - women were seen as maternal figures, or at the very least - as older sisters. Threatening or harming a woman staff member was considered the lowest of the low by the "inmates" themselves, so the risk to the staff was very low; but of course security measures were in place. Time spent at the facility was between 6 to 18 months. Usually, if no improvement in behaviour or adherence in the rules was observed within 3-4 months, the teenager was returend to the care of Corrections.

Hello, Ground!

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

kiwifidget

"Cookie"
3413 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3078719 22-May-2023 16:54

I am surprised there is such a big market for stolen jewellery in NZ.

Delete cookies?! Are you insane?!

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3078720 22-May-2023 17:19

kiwifidget:

I am surprised there is such a big market for stolen jewellery in NZ.

considering that they got caught with it suggests they are not pro's and probably didn't have a market for it.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3078756 22-May-2023 19:46

Jails, Borstals etc are the society escape, treating the symptoms and failing to address and treat the root causes. They are abject failures. Society can lock away the problem out of sight, out of mind and carry out mutual back slapping.

MadEngineer

4271 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3078786 22-May-2023 21:07

networkn:
quickymart:

I know that shop and it had a guard in place when I walked past the other day. He looked quite tough too, but I suppose if you have three thugs coming at you at once, it's no contest 😟

I hope they catch the thugs that did this as soon as possible and they get what they deserve.

They have no authority to physically prevent anything. They are there as a visual deterrent.

Until the value reaches $1000 then like any citizen can arrest them.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

cokemaster

Exited
4927 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3078796 22-May-2023 21:21

@Wombat1, South Bank, Newstead, and Sunny Bank - I get around :)

@MikeB4 - I fully get that locking people up and throwing away the key isn't the solution. However if the situation continues to deteriorate, I believe people will feel the need to take things into their own hands and suspect the juries may show sympathy.

webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

quickymart

13924 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3078804 22-May-2023 21:33

Rewind to 5 years ago before this sort of thing was very prevalent - what punishments were in place back then (if any)? Or is it exactly the same punishment as these criminals would receive today?

Asking as I didn't really pay attention to this sort of thing in 2018, but it seems to be happening more often now.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#3078901 23-May-2023 09:29

Kookoo:

Show me one example where the law has substantially reduced the punishment available to courts for theft, burglary, aggravated assault and the likes, over the last 40-50 years.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/national-calls-for-inquiry-into-crowns-handling-of-teen-rapist-jayden-meyers-sentencing/QSAE5AVXECZHOWFZODINELVM6E/

Jayden Meyer, sentenced to home detention for raping 4 girls, and violating another.

Judges apply discounts for sentencing but this has become out of control....

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/478921/sentencing-discounts-benefit-offenders-while-punishing-victims-advocate-says

Discounting sentences are appropriate, but, they've gone too far when applying multiple discounts.

Crims vote labour, the mongrel mob head has ordered his gang to vote labour . They see labour as soft on crime.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/gang-man-harry-tam-urges-members-not-to-vote-national/JKBCWK3TGDNVWLUSYTMZAMAO7E/

This govt gave 2 million dollars to the mongrel mob to rehabilitate meth users ... the same meth users the mob profits from by dealing them meth. This is obscene!

The prison population has dropped by over 2000 and crime is rampant.

As for my solution.... improved education from an early age. Teach kids the basics first. Too many lower socio economic children are illiterate and not attending school at all.

paulgr

883 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3078903 23-May-2023 09:42

A controversial view these days I suppose, I consider prisons are there to protect societies law abiding people from those that don't give a stuff about the rest of us.
The vast majority of people that grow up poor, are brought up in dysfunctional families, or are otherwise disadvantaged do not commit ram raids, beat people up, and run around in gangs giving the finger to everyone else.
Society needs rules to function and they need to be enforced on this lawless minority or you no longer have a safe functioning society.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 16