Smash and grabs at MHJ

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#3078911 23-May-2023 10:28

paulgr:

A controversial view these days I suppose, I consider prisons are there to protect societies law abiding people from those that don't give a stuff about the rest of us.
The vast majority of people that grow up poor, are brought up in dysfunctional families, or are otherwise disadvantaged do not commit ram raids, beat people up, and run around in gangs giving the finger to everyone else.
Society needs rules to function and they need to be enforced on this lawless minority or you no longer have a safe functioning society.

I worked in paid and voluntary social services for many decades and based on that experience your comment above is a simplistic view which I believe is influenced by the news media take on what they believe is the issue . Violence is present in all socio-economic levels, as is crime, mental health issues and so on. It can be all too easy for society to form conclusions in order to isolate themselves for the inconvenient truth of what is causing the societal issues Aotearoa is facing and sadly they are not new issues.

Edit: I have edited my original post to reflect a non knee jerk response that is previously was. Thank you @surfisup1000

MadEngineer

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#3078913 23-May-2023 10:56

Isn’t that what he said? “The vast majority of people that grow up poor, are brought up in dysfunctional families, or are otherwise disadvantaged do not commit ram raids”

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

networkn

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#3078919 23-May-2023 11:49

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/05/west-auckland-post-shop-closing-after-7-burglaries-leave-owners-living-in-fear-unable-to-sleep.html

PM is 'devastated', but not enough to do anything about for the past 12+ months.

Thoughts and prayers!

surfisup1000

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#3078980 23-May-2023 12:51

MikeB4:

your comment above is a load of garbage.

I don't get why you have to get so nasty when you disagree with someone. Are you having a bad day?

gzt

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#3078982 23-May-2023 12:58

surfisup1000: Crims vote labour, the mongrel mob head has ordered his gang to vote labour . They see labour as soft on crime.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/gang-man-harry-tam-urges-members-not-to-vote-national/JKBCWK3TGDNVWLUSYTMZAMAO7E/

This govt gave 2 million dollars to the mongrel mob to rehabilitate meth users ... the same meth users the mob profits from by dealing them meth. This is obscene!

You're wrong on both points. The article says Tam urged members "don't vote for National". Nothing in the article says anything about voting Labour. Imo this is not a group known for enrolling or voting. As for funding - the article states:

Article: "The funding that was granted to H2R was based on a programme the National government developed with the Notorious Chapter of the Mongrel Mob to deliver as part of John Key's Tackling Methamphetamine Action Plan."

This topic has mostly been sensible discussion without the political bunfight and silly claims. I guess that part had to end eventually.

surfisup1000

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#3078984 23-May-2023 13:12

gzt:
surfisup1000: Crims vote labour, the mongrel mob head has ordered his gang to vote labour . They see labour as soft on crime.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/gang-man-harry-tam-urges-members-not-to-vote-national/JKBCWK3TGDNVWLUSYTMZAMAO7E/

This govt gave 2 million dollars to the mongrel mob to rehabilitate meth users ... the same meth users the mob profits from by dealing them meth. This is obscene!

You're wrong on both points. The article says Tam urged members "don't vote for National". Nothing in the article says anything about voting labour. Imo this is not a group known for enrolling or voting. As for funding - the article states:

Article: "The funding that was granted to H2R was based on a programme the National government developed with the Notorious Chapter of the Mongrel Mob to deliver as part of John Key's Tackling Methamphetamine Action Plan."

This topic has mostly been sensible discussion without the political bunfight and silly claims. I guess that part had to end eventually.

Do you think Tam is encouraging members to vote Act ? Who else do you think the mob will vote for? The only other option is Labour, or the greens, or the maori party. Essentially the team responsible for the breakdown in education and law and order.

Regarding your other claim ...

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/446739/ardern-backs-2-point-75m-support-for-mongrel-mob-meth-addiction-programme

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has rejected criticism over $2.75 million in funding methamphetamine addiction treatment in a programme led by the Mongrel Mob."

and...

"The organisation involved in running the programme - Hard to Reach - is run by co-director Harry Tam"

So, the "Labour" government gave 2.75 million to this Harry Tam. The same person who ordered his gangster minions to vote Labour! If you think some of this money isn't going into mob coffers then I have a bridge to sell to you.

gzt

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#3078986 23-May-2023 13:18

I think I made it clear I do not wish to buy the bridge you're currently trying to sell.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

Eva888

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#3079044 23-May-2023 14:34

Very few children from lower socio economic homes with illiterate parents living in overcrowded decrepit places will ever have a chance to change life’s daily grind unless that cycle is broken by showing the kids there is another way and to ignite some hope in their minds.

Their view of life is so dimmed by their surroundings and the adults who are their only role models. Maybe we need to give kids at school more inspiration on what they can become if they put in the effort. Maybe they need school trips to successful businesses and factories or tradesmen where they can listen to the stories of successful people who can describe how they got ahead and to do something new and interesting hands on.

I wish schools would arrange for young primary aged kids to go on a couple days internship with successful businesses where they can be given a few doable chores and encouragement with a nice reward pack at the end of it so as to give them self worth, A chance to talk and see a different part of their narrow world. Start them young when their minds are like sponges and they still imagine, because it’s a bit late after puberty when their path is guided by what their peers think.

I am certain that most people reading here would be happy to do something to help a kid. Maybe it’s time to proactively suggest this at the local school and encourage some change to inspire children. It’s not the kids fault being born into poverty and we adults have to lift them out of that environment so they visualise and believe their life can be better than their parents' and teach them how to achieve this.

'Johnny you can do this too when you grow up, this is what you need and how...I believe in you. I’m here to help you any time you need.'

MadEngineer

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#3079084 23-May-2023 21:10

We had similar at primary school where we visited a couple of local workplaces and interviewed the owners.

Sending primary school kids out into random workplaces for work experience however? You can't tell me you don't see any issues with that at. At that age I had the benefit of being able to hang out at construction sites on a few school holidays. Some of that time was spent climbing ancient pine trees. Some of it was spent pulling nails out of native timber so it could be re-used. Even at that stage however I already knew I'd be seeking a more technical career so although beneficial it was of zero interest to me. There's no way in hell a kid these days would be allowed anywhere near a construction site.

We had a work experience week at highschool however and everyone absolutely loved it.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

networkn

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#3079088 23-May-2023 21:30

The reality is that most primary schools these days, are less focused on academics and more on social development and impact, awareness of others, treatment of others, health and wellbeing, being a good earth citizen.

My kids talk about stuff at school I couldn't imagine talking about, and sometimes I found that challenging because I still feel education should primarily be academic and in the rush to not exclude people there is less drive for academic excellence. Having said that, I have come around to realize the value of this and my kids primary school life was considerably more pleasant than mine, as bullying, name-calling, social outcastery isn't tolerated in any school I've been near in my kids early education. It's less of a problem for them during intermediate too, as those behaviours, whilst present, is considerably less so and incidents are dealt with fairly well. Not saying none goes on, or that every school is the same.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#3079091 23-May-2023 21:53

I'll add in my 10c worth here...

1) There is no consequences for bad behavior. As a hypothetical example, if little Johnny at school beats up little billy, what happens? Nothing, Johnny is talked too, told thats not very nice now, and that's it.

2) Are the those that are doing these ram raids doing for the Tik Tok views, or is it gang initiation? If it's the later, is it a reflection on the cost of living ? That these teens are having to turn to this just to live?

Either way, I don't have the answers to either points.

floydbloke

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#3079147 24-May-2023 09:47

WyleECoyoteNZ:

...

Either way, I don't have the answers to either points.

It seems that no-one does, and the polarised views (including here on GZ) ranging from "they just need more hugs" to "lock them up for life" (yes, they are exaggerations) don't help in getting closer to a solution. Meanwhile the shopowners, shopworkers and the general public continue to get hurt (physically, mentally and/or financially).

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

Eva888

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#3079148 24-May-2023 09:53

MadEngineer:
We had similar at primary school where we visited a couple of local workplaces and interviewed the owners.

Sending primary school kids out into random workplaces for work experience however? You can't tell me you don't see any issues with that at. At that age I had the benefit of being able to hang out at construction sites on a few school holidays. Some of that time was spent climbing ancient pine trees. Some of it was spent pulling nails out of native timber so it could be re-used. Even at that stage however I already knew I'd be seeking a more technical career so although beneficial it was of zero interest to me. There's no way in hell a kid these days would be allowed anywhere near a construction site.

We had a work experience week at highschool however and everyone absolutely loved it.

Sadly the world has become so predatory on children as well. Absolutely, I do see problems with sending younger kids off and the finer safety points would need to be ironed out, places vetted etc. Example they would be sent out in pairs or threes, one or two young and a much older person or a volunteer parent or college kid, grandparent assisting in the background. I bet a lot of retired people would be happy to volunteer as chaperones.

It’s not only about doing some sort of work, it’s being made to feel valued and important which many of these kids aren’t if they live in violent environments where they are one of a few and a cuff over the head comes with breakfast, assuming there’s food. There is no respect or boundaries at home and that’s why we need to help these kids from a younger age to let them see another pathway.

At around age 12 I worked on weekends at a local hospital run by nuns. I would take trays to the patients change water in vases and roll bandages and make up packs for the autoclave. Was paid a pittance plus lunch, mince on toast, but loved it. Felt very important and I think that self worth is something that kids are missing.

Social media has become the main barometer of who kids are and that world is mostly unattainable and fake so it further crushes their self esteem and confidence. They steal because that’s the only way they will ever attain the glitz and glamour they see on screen and violence is all around them including from the online games they play which further dulls their sense of daily reality.

We haven’t even touched on drugs or too much PC in this conversation, both of which were largely missing in past years when you wouldn’t dare answer back to a cop or a teacher. Respect for authority has flown. Who would have ever dreamt that nurses and doctors trying to help you in an emergency department could be attacked and now fear for their safety and need bouncers to function.

MikeB4

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#3079151 24-May-2023 10:04

There are clues in history that can point to why this is happening. Look back to the early 20th century. There were multiple hits on society, Global war, global pandemic, The Depression, prohibition. During that time the was a large crime surge around the globe and continued into the 50s.

In Aotearoa and abroad there has been multiple hits on society, the housing crisis, global pandemic, inflation, terrorism and multiple natural disasters. I have probably missed some. It should not come as a surprise that we are experiencing what we are now experiencing. Personally I believe all concerned are victims of the last two and a half years and more. The ever present stress of climate change on the generations that will be affected the most well change the view of the world and society.

If we are the caring society we like to think we are we need to be putting the effort into finding solutions and seeking retribution.

Paul1977

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#3079370 24-May-2023 13:28

Fear of consequences has always been a necessary part of maintaining law and order. Since the consequences to youth offenders are so light they have no reason to fear them, the natural result is a lot of youth crime.

Of course there are other contributing factors, but none of them change the fact that if serious crimes don't have serious consequences they will continue.

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