The Discrimination Thread

Forums › Off topic › The Discrimination Thread

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10

1078 posts

Uber Geek

#2687659 7-Apr-2021 09:07

Note: I am in no way interested in sports commentators and what they have to say but there is one question I ask myself:

Say the player in question had been French and the commentator had made the same comment with an exaggerated French accent. Is that racism/discrimination/bigotry?

If yes, sweet, I have no further question but would tend to disagree. (it falls under gentle fun being poked at people who speak with an accent, in my opinion)
If No, then I have to ask why not? What's the difference? What about an Irish guy? A German? Russian?

Note: I am French and do speak with an accent and friends will on occasion make fun of it...

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18664 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2687662 7-Apr-2021 09:13

The thing is, French people aren't being murdered and assaulted on the streets because of the way they look. The difference between mocking the accent of a French person and a Japanese person may be the stupidity of people who take it a step further.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

BlinkyBill

1443 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2687716 7-Apr-2021 10:09

Rikkitic:

The thing is, French people aren't being murdered and assaulted on the streets because of the way they look. The difference between mocking the accent of a French person and a Japanese person may be the stupidity of people who take it a step further.

Really? Three French Policemen shot just last week? Charlie Hebdo (13 people)? Bataclan and related shootings that night (130 dead)? Etc Etc Etc.

I would venture to suggest the rate of French people being murdered and assaulted because of rascism greatly exceeds that of Japanese. Without evidence, of course.

gcorgnet

1078 posts

Uber Geek

#2687719 7-Apr-2021 10:15

BlinkyBill:

Rikkitic:

The thing is, French people aren't being murdered and assaulted on the streets because of the way they look. The difference between mocking the accent of a French person and a Japanese person may be the stupidity of people who take it a step further.

Really? Three French Policemen shot just last week? Charlie Hebdo (13 people)? Bataclan and related shootings that night (130 dead)? Etc Etc Etc.

I would venture to suggest the rate of French people being murdered and assaulted because of rascism greatly exceeds that of Japanese. Without evidence, of course.

Thanks for this. I wasn't even going to respond to this (non) argument as it was unfounded. It still leaves us with my initial question though?

If the commenter was imitating a French/Irish/Russian accent, would it be racism just the same? Why not?

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79306 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2687720 7-Apr-2021 10:19

BlinkyBill:

Rikkitic:

The thing is, French people aren't being murdered and assaulted on the streets because of the way they look. The difference between mocking the accent of a French person and a Japanese person may be the stupidity of people who take it a step further.

Really? Three French Policemen shot just last week? Charlie Hebdo (13 people)? Bataclan and related shootings that night (130 dead)? Etc Etc Etc.

I would venture to suggest the rate of French people being murdered and assaulted because of rascism greatly exceeds that of Japanese. Without evidence, of course.

But were those events racism or extremism?

One thing is people being discriminated against for having a certain skin colour, sexual orientation or facial feature. Another thing is some religious fanatic going around killing people because their extremist belief made them do so.

networkn

Networkn
32358 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2687722 7-Apr-2021 10:21

freitasm:

But were those events racism or extremism?

One thing is people being discriminated against for having a certain skin colour, sexual orientation or facial feature. Another thing is some religious fanatic going around killing people because their extremist belief made them do so.

I'd imagine it's hard for extremism to exist without discrimination.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18664 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2687727 7-Apr-2021 10:35

BlinkyBill:

Rikkitic:

The thing is, French people aren't being murdered and assaulted on the streets because of the way they look. The difference between mocking the accent of a French person and a Japanese person may be the stupidity of people who take it a step further.

Really? Three French Policemen shot just last week? Charlie Hebdo (13 people)? Bataclan and related shootings that night (130 dead)? Etc Etc Etc.

I would venture to suggest the rate of French people being murdered and assaulted because of rascism greatly exceeds that of Japanese. Without evidence, of course.

It is not racism. It is religious fanaticism. Both are equally abhorrent, of course, but the French killings are not because of their racial appearance.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18664 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2687734 7-Apr-2021 10:48

gcorgnet:

Thanks for this. I wasn't even going to respond to this (non) argument as it was unfounded. It still leaves us with my initial question though?

If the commenter was imitating a French/Irish/Russian accent, would it be racism just the same? Why not?

It was hardly a 'non-argument'. Apart from that, your question doesn't make sense. Racism is treating people differently because of their racial characteristics. French, Irish and Russian people are often of the same Caucasian race, so race in itself is not a distinguishing factor and racism does not come into play. Discrimination certainly does, but that is based on other things. Making fun of any of those accents, or any other, might be impolite or even insulting, but it is not racist.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79306 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2687736 7-Apr-2021 10:55

Using dog whistle words doesn't make someone different from those that openly spew hate.

networkn

Networkn
32358 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2687737 7-Apr-2021 10:56

Rikkitic:

Making fun of any of those accents, or any other, might be impolite or even insulting, but it is not racist.

I can't agree with this. It's either acceptable to mock someone's accent or it's not. Whenever you introduce exceptions and nuance, you invite unintentional breaches and harm.

I enjoy jokes based on stereotypical exaggerations of many nationalities (including my own), I've told more than a couple in my life, though I am very careful now who I tell those to, as people are much more likely to be offended than they were when I was in my teens and early twenties.

It's become less acceptable, and I have mixed feelings about that, but overall, I think it's probably a good thing we considering how those jokes affect communities in general.

networkn

Networkn
32358 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2687738 7-Apr-2021 10:58

IMO, as horrible as what Joe Wheeler said was, it was his first error of it's type, and in the grand scheme of things, at the lower end of offending in my opinion. He wasn't *trying* to offend anyone (though I agree his lack of awareness was shocking), was trying to be funny and got it badly wrong. I suspect he will learn from this regardless of any enforced cultural awareness training he undergoes as a result of his employment disciplinary action. Those who are saying Sky hasn't done anything, really have no idea, since they have not publically stated anything. It would be surprising to me if there wasn't a formal process around this held, it just isn't likely public record. I don't have any knowledge of such action, but it shouldn't be ruled out as having not occurred simply because it wasn't publically announced. Same with sponsors, and other people who may have complained.

He has come out publically and apologised. So long as it doesn't happen again, and he "genuinely" tries to be better, that should be the end of it. I suspect he will have been punished, though that may never come to light.

gcorgnet

1078 posts

Uber Geek

#2687740 7-Apr-2021 11:02

freitasm:

Using dog whistle words doesn't make someone different from those that openly spew hate.

What does this refer to?

Geektastic

17943 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2687741 7-Apr-2021 11:03

gcorgnet:
Note: I am in no way interested in sports commentators and what they have to say but there is one question I ask myself:

Say the player in question had been French and the commentator had made the same comment with an exaggerated French accent. Is that racism/discrimination/bigotry?

If yes, sweet, I have no further question but would tend to disagree. (it falls under gentle fun being poked at people who speak with an accent, in my opinion)
If No, then I have to ask why not? What's the difference? What about an Irish guy? A German? Russian?

Note: I am French and do speak with an accent and friends will on occasion make fun of it...

Well, your written English certainly beats my written French which would be adequately described as “bof!” Due to lack of practice these days.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18664 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2687743 7-Apr-2021 11:14

networkn:

Rikkitic:

Making fun of any of those accents, or any other, might be impolite or even insulting, but it is not racist.

I can't agree with this. It's either acceptable to mock someone's accent or it's not. Whenever you introduce exceptions and nuance, you invite unintentional breaches and harm.

I enjoy jokes based on stereotypical exaggerations of many nationalities (including my own), I've told more than a couple in my life, though I am very careful now who I tell those to, as people are much more likely to be offended than they were when I was in my teens and early twenties.

It's become less acceptable, and I have mixed feelings about that, but overall, I think it's probably a good thing we considering how those jokes affect communities in general.

There is a real difference here but people often have difficulty with precision. I also enjoy jokes based on exaggerated stereotypes but I agree it is good that this kind of thing is being re-examined. The problem with mocking a Japanese accent in particular has to do with the fact that most Japanese do belong to a specific race and some very real ugly racism preceded and was enhanced by the second world war. This makes it more sensitive and better avoided altogether by anyone with a modicum of intelligence. There is no need to disparage people because of the way they talk or for any other reason.

The same sensitivities have applied to different nationalities over the years, such as the Polish and the Irish, but again, this is discrimination, not racism. The two are different. I am neither Polish nor Irish but I would imagine that jokes once considered offensive might not bother many of them now. Once a particular group is no longer at the bottom of the heap and has become part of the majority culture, the sting goes out of a lot of this.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gcorgnet

1078 posts

Uber Geek

#2687752 7-Apr-2021 11:34

Rikkitic:

There is a real difference here but people often have difficulty with precision. I also enjoy jokes based on exaggerated stereotypes but I agree it is good that this kind of thing is being re-examined. The problem with mocking a Japanese accent in particular has to do with the fact that most Japanese do belong to a specific race and some very real ugly racism preceded and was enhanced by the second world war. This makes it more sensitive and better avoided altogether by anyone with a modicum of intelligence. There is no need to disparage people because of the way they talk or for any other reason.

The same sensitivities have applied to different nationalities over the years, such as the Polish and the Irish, but again, this is discrimination, not racism. The two are different. I am neither Polish nor Irish but I would imagine that jokes once considered offensive might not bother many of them now. Once a particular group is no longer at the bottom of the heap and has become part of the majority culture, the sting goes out of a lot of this.

I like this, thanks for writing it up. And I think that unfortunately, you are right, especially about how far down the heap someone is perceived to be due to race/country of origin/whatever else.

Cheers

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10