Citizen's Initiated Referendum - transparent return envelopes and general discussion

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176 posts

Master Geek

#948260 9-Dec-2013 18:49

andrewNZ: Pretty much (as per my previous post).

Machines sort 99% of printed mail and about 75% of hand written mail (they'll read things people struggle to read, but I'm yet to write an address the machine can read...), and they process roughly 10 items a second.

Id suggest the chance of someone tampering with the result at post is equal to someone tampering at the electrol office who actually open them.

For the OP's peace of mind, we even find loose ones, we bag them up and send them too.

This kind of attitude is also used to justify spying on people, who have "nothing to hide".

I'm actually quite surprised that it's the prevailing attitude here on GZ.

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#948384 10-Dec-2013 00:44

Geektastic:

Democracy is, according to my Oxford Dictionary, "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives"

The key part is "or all the eligible members".

I maintain that we need a test in order to demonstrate eligibility and a definition of eligibility that states you must pass said test.

It's well within the definition of democracy to exclude the unintelligent in a country which already has other exclusions and has therefore accepted as the status quo that not all people can vote.

The best part of this is the sheer arrogance you demonstrate in assuming you have the required knowledge to be one of these elite voters. I very much imagine you are not as acquainted on New Zealand, let alone world political issues as you may think and that's what is worrying about your point of view. Just saying.

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#948386 10-Dec-2013 00:52

andrewNZ: Pretty much (as per my previous post).

Machines sort 99% of printed mail and about 75% of hand written mail (they'll read things people struggle to read, but I'm yet to write an address the machine can read...), and they process roughly 10 items a second.

Id suggest the chance of someone tampering with the result at post is equal to someone tampering at the electrol office who actually open them.

For the OP's peace of mind, we even find loose ones, we bag them up and send them too.

Very OT but...

I always thought that was the reason for post codes? Easier for machines to read since it's harder to write crap numbers. I also thought a postcode alone was enough to get it to the place the postie then sorted?

1080p

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#948392 10-Dec-2013 01:51

jnawk:
andrewNZ: Pretty much (as per my previous post).

Machines sort 99% of printed mail and about 75% of hand written mail (they'll read things people struggle to read, but I'm yet to write an address the machine can read...), and they process roughly 10 items a second.

Id suggest the chance of someone tampering with the result at post is equal to someone tampering at the electrol office who actually open them.

For the OP's peace of mind, we even find loose ones, we bag them up and send them too.

This kind of attitude is also used to justify spying on people, who have "nothing to hide".

I'm actually quite surprised that it's the prevailing attitude here on GZ.

But it explains why your original post has no value in reality.

Geektastic

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#948402 10-Dec-2013 06:47

sdav:
Geektastic:

Democracy is, according to my Oxford Dictionary, "a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives"

The key part is "or all the eligible members".

I maintain that we need a test in order to demonstrate eligibility and a definition of eligibility that states you must pass said test.

It's well within the definition of democracy to exclude the unintelligent in a country which already has other exclusions and has therefore accepted as the status quo that not all people can vote.

The best part of this is the sheer arrogance you demonstrate in assuming you have the required knowledge to be one of these elite voters. I very much imagine you are not as acquainted on New Zealand, let alone world political issues as you may think and that's what is worrying about your point of view. Just saying.

Vastly more so than the average mouth breather shuffling around Pak nSave in pink slippers looking like an extra from a zombie movie I assure you.

andrewNZ

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#948443 10-Dec-2013 08:25

sdav:
andrewNZ: Pretty much (as per my previous post).

Machines sort 99% of printed mail and about 75% of hand written mail (they'll read things people struggle to read, but I'm yet to write an address the machine can read...), and they process roughly 10 items a second.

Id suggest the chance of someone tampering with the result at post is equal to someone tampering at the electrol office who actually open them.

For the OP's peace of mind, we even find loose ones, we bag them up and send them too.

Very OT but...

I always thought that was the reason for post codes? Easier for machines to read since it's harder to write crap numbers. I also thought a postcode alone was enough to get it to the place the postie then sorted?

Staying OT

The post codes do help the machines, and we get 2-3% better sorting with them, but they actually help the people more. With a postcode, people don't have to know where Te Uku is, all they have to know is, a postcode starting with a 3 goes to Waikato. Without a postcode, obscure little places often have to be looked up.

The postcode will get you to the general area in all cases, and the exact place in the case of PO Boxes, Private bags, and Rural delivery runs.

sdav

846 posts

Ultimate Geek

#948565 10-Dec-2013 11:04

andrewNZ:
sdav:
andrewNZ: Pretty much (as per my previous post).

Machines sort 99% of printed mail and about 75% of hand written mail (they'll read things people struggle to read, but I'm yet to write an address the machine can read...), and they process roughly 10 items a second.

Id suggest the chance of someone tampering with the result at post is equal to someone tampering at the electrol office who actually open them.

For the OP's peace of mind, we even find loose ones, we bag them up and send them too.

Very OT but...

I always thought that was the reason for post codes? Easier for machines to read since it's harder to write crap numbers. I also thought a postcode alone was enough to get it to the place the postie then sorted?

Staying OT

The post codes do help the machines, and we get 2-3% better sorting with them, but they actually help the people more. With a postcode, people don't have to know where Te Uku is, all they have to know is, a postcode starting with a 3 goes to Waikato. Without a postcode, obscure little places often have to be looked up.

The postcode will get you to the general area in all cases, and the exact place in the case of PO Boxes, Private bags, and Rural delivery runs.

The more you (I) know!

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richms

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#948605 10-Dec-2013 11:49

Postcode seems irrelevant for Po boxes since as soon as I enter the box number the postcode finder knows it.

Richard rich.ms

scuwp

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#951893 13-Dec-2013 20:47

So there you have it after all that:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9515170/Two-thirds-of-voters-oppose-asset-sales

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

richms

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#951895 13-Dec-2013 20:49

Miss leading headline when not everyone voted

Richard rich.ms

DarthKermit

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#951896 13-Dec-2013 20:50

I voted yes, mainly because I think this referendum is a waste of our tax money.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

code15

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Master Geek

#951897 13-Dec-2013 20:51

richms: Miss leading headline when not everyone voted

"Two thirds of voters oppose asset sales"

MikeB4

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#951898 13-Dec-2013 20:52

richms: Miss leading headline when not everyone voted

It isn't misleading, it was nearly two thirds of those who voted.

jeffnz

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#951903 13-Dec-2013 21:06

it would depend on your political leaning if it was the majority or not. I recall when National got in that some of teh left were saying the majority didn't vote for national therefore they have no mandate to govern, funny how things change

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jnawk

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Master Geek

#951904 13-Dec-2013 21:07

KiwiNZ:
richms: Miss leading headline when not everyone voted

It isn't misleading, it was nearly two thirds of those who voted.

No, it is. Two thirds of those who voted are not two thirds of all voters. Two thirds of those who voted are around 1/4 of all voters.

Fewer people voted 'no' than people who voted 'not national' in the last election. I think it's official, John has his mandate. (Which isn't what the headline would have you believe.)

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