Titanic tourist sub missing

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#3094117 23-Jun-2023 14:49

This is one of those photos that just gets worse and worse the longer you look at it. I take back my earlier comment about undergrad engineering student project, a student project would be more professional than this.

networkn

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#3094121 23-Jun-2023 15:14

If the only good thing to come out of this was how little they would have suffered, that's at least something. RIP.

networkn

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#3094123 23-Jun-2023 15:16

I feel claustrophobic just looking at that picture. I can't think of a single incentive that would get me in that underwater.

ech3lon

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#3094133 23-Jun-2023 15:54

Watch James Cameron take on this which he has some experience; he reckons the structure design/material of the sub hull was not up to the requirements for the depth pressure.

mkissin

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#3094135 23-Jun-2023 16:11

ech3lon:

Watch James Cameron take on this which he has some experience; he reckons the structure design/material of the sub hull was not up to the requirements for the depth pressure.

I mean, we have some pretty compelling evidence that it wasn't.

Jase2985

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#3094136 23-Jun-2023 16:12

Batman:

wellygary:

Looks like the US Navy SOSUS network heard the implosion days ago ,

"An implosion was heard near the site where debris was located on Thursday, about 500m from the Titanic shipwreck, soon after the sub disappeared, according to the report.

The system is used to monitor enemy submarines, and the Navy asked that it not be identified due to national security concerns, the Journal reported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/titan-submarine-implosion-navy-debris-microphones-b2362685.html

looks like the cat's out of the bag!

you would be remiss in thinking everyone didnt know thats what was used

Jase2985

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#3094137 23-Jun-2023 16:15

the thing is these things compress and expand everytime they go down there, which fatigues things. i wonder how often it had a through structural check

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mkissin

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#3094138 23-Jun-2023 16:18

Jase2985:

the thing is these things compress and expand everytime they go down there, which fatigues things. i wonder how often it had a through structural check

The problem with these one-off type engineering projects is that you don't get a chance to develop statistics around that type of thing. Depending on what checks they did, they might not have even noticed micro-cracks forming without invasive/destructive tests. Then the carbon fibre doesn't fail softly. Which is why, of course, you'd build in huge amounts of margin...

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#3094141 23-Jun-2023 16:34

Jase2985:
the thing is these things compress and expand everytime they go down there, which fatigues things. i wonder how often it had a through structural check

There's just so much wrong with this thing that it's hard to even know where to start. For example, just to pick out a single tiny item, the hatch that can only be opened from the outside has been singled out for criticism, but then there's also supposedly a video out there somewhere showing them using an impact wrench to tighten the bolts, which is absolutely not how you do it. You need a torque wrench, initially set to low torque, then you tighten them in the correct opposite-sides pattern, set to higher torque, tighten again in the correct pattern, etc, until the desired torque is reached. You don't just hammer each one into place with an impact driver, you're not going to get an even seal, not going to get consistent tightening of each bolt, and since you're hammering them in there's a chance you'll crack the frame you're driving them into.

And that's just one tiny aspect of the whole deathtrap. It's just a catalogue of fail, like they were trying to create a teaching example of how not to do it.

networkn

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#3094142 23-Jun-2023 16:41

Stuff has a headline 'Can the bodies be recovered?'

Not trying to be morbid, but surely, if it was enough to fold solid metal, the human body would be obliterated? 300 times Earth's gravity. there would presumably be nothing to recover?

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#3094143 23-Jun-2023 16:42

There was nothing scientific about this operation. It was simply created to make money and done on the cheap by the look of it.

The waivers the unfortunate passengers signed won't be worth the paper they were written on once the (wealthy) families lawyers get stuck in. I hope the parent company gets sued out of existence.

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#3094144 23-Jun-2023 16:42

neb:
Jase2985:

the thing is these things compress and expand everytime they go down there, which fatigues things. i wonder how often it had a through structural check

There's just so much wrong with this thing that it's hard to even know where to start. For example, just to pick out a single tiny item, the hatch that can only be opened from the outside has been singled out for criticism, but then there's also supposedly a video out there somewhere showing them using an impact wrench to tighten the bolts, which is absolutely not how you do it. You need a torque wrench, initially set to low torque, then you tighten them in the correct opposite-sides pattern, set to higher torque, tighten again in the correct pattern, etc, until the desired torque is reached. You don't just hammer each one into place with an impact driver, you're not going to get an even seal, not going to get consistent tightening of each bolt, and since you're hammering them in there's a chance you'll crack the frame you're driving them into. And that's just one tiny aspect of the whole deathtrap. It's just a catalogue of fail, like they were trying to create a teaching example of how not to do it.

It is gob-smacking isn't it? The moon is more explored than the depths of the oceans. Probably because getting to the depths of the oceans is harder and more dangerous. Yet it seems in this case, there was no oversight, no certification. Nothing. I can't understand how this was allowed - law of the high seas?

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#3094149 23-Jun-2023 16:52

johno1234:

It is gob-smacking isn't it? The moon is more explored than the depths of the oceans. Probably because getting to the depths of the oceans is harder and more dangerous. Yet it seems in this case, there was no oversight, no certification. Nothing. I can't understand how this was allowed - law of the high seas?

Governments around the world have standards for live production tourism and travel services like airplanes, but there are exceptions carved out for experimental or scientific expeditions. It sounds like this might have abused that exception by suggesting that tourists were 'mission specialists'.

Question - does anyone know if there are rigorous government regulations regarding a private company creating a rocket or other vessel to visit the moon or Musk's planned trip to Mars - or whether they would also exist in this non-production 'trust the company to know their own business' space? Clearly a test pilot has to be able to fly a plane before the plane can have production testing so those test flights need to be given some exemptions. I wonder if the rules will be tightened by government after this - or if the potential litigation from victims' families would bring about changes.

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#3094150 23-Jun-2023 16:56

gzt: Another failure scenario is some problem with ballast and sub could ascend only partially say 2km up or some number.

I don't see that as a scenario. As you rise, pressure decreases. So, if you have some kind of air bag that you inflate in an emergency, you would rise faster and faster as the air expanded and made you more buoyant. (This was a problem in early aerial balloons... as they rose, they would become more buoyant, and rose faster. Early on, the only solution was to vent some (expensive) gas from your balloon. That then led to the other problem... as you descended, your balloon compressed and you became less buoyant, so descended faster and faster. The solution was bags of sand ballast to be emptied. All this was solved by Santos-Dumont).

networkn

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#3094151 23-Jun-2023 16:57

SJB:

There was nothing scientific about this operation. It was simply created to make money and done on the cheap by the look of it.

The waivers the unfortunate passengers signed won't be worth the paper they were written on once the (wealthy) families lawyers get stuck in. I hope the parent company gets sued out of existence.

Playing devils advocate here...

Logically, the CEO stands to make the most money from these expeditions. If he felt the chances of dying were 'moderate to high', hard to believe he himself would have been piloting it. Presumably, he understands if his expeditions were to kill everyone on board, it was an extinction-level event for his business, and it's holdings and any money in it.

I mean, it's feasible he was suicidal and self-destructive but somewhat less likely. There is a chance this was a horrible accident.

Also, presuming the Billionaire didn't inherit his wealth and was of somewhat reasonable intelligence, had presumably had a lot to lose, he wouldn't have gotten into it completely blind to the situation.

The waivers won't mean much, but equally, I don't expect any financial settlement to be financially significant (To a billionaire), unless insurance kicks in.

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