Worker sacked from her 16-year council job for taking home 10 leftover sausages

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DaveB

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#197950 19-Jun-2016 19:36

Worker sacked from her 16-year council job for taking home 10 leftover sausages and two bowls of salad fails to win her claim for unfair dismissal

Sydney's Mosman Council fired 16-year employee because she took home around 10 'council owned' (leftover) sausages after a Christmas party.

I really do struggle to understand what this world is coming to and how people continue to accept this. Damn, does this mean I can fire people for not eating the lunches I put on?

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#1576715 19-Jun-2016 19:42

I suspect this would be an excuse. If they liked her and valued her as an employee, not a word would have been said.

Her boss (or someone above her) clearly wanted her gone.

I'm amazed she lost.

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DaveB

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#1576728 19-Jun-2016 20:20

Linuxluver:

I suspect this would be an excuse. If they liked her and valued her as an employee, not a word would have been said.

Her boss (or someone above her) clearly wanted her gone.

I'm amazed she lost.

You are more than likely correct. And therein lies my issue.

Nowadays, does it take many years for an employer to find the lamest of (irrelevant) excuses to fire somebody should their ability to perform their duties decline , or are employee rights so entrenched that they can be considered a bad employee and get away with it for an extended period of time?

And worse of all, regardless of the country involved - How can a council justify the legals costs involved of bringing this issue to the courts, especialy if they had lost, let alone the taxpayer costs of providing that court of hearing?

A person either performs their duties or they do not. To blame it on a cold left over sausage(s) is the most pathetic excuse I have seen.

A pc world gone mad again.

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#1576751 19-Jun-2016 20:51

You don't know Australia. It's like America. Letters of the law, technicalities, and lawyers rule the land. I told my cousin (a barrister) about my house relocation and how I thought about hiring students from the SJS ... he almost tried to slap and choke me - because, as he explained, if he invited me to his house and I tripped on his lawn, he is liable for millions of dollars. Let alone hiring some kids to carry stuff around!

Anyway, there is no common sense in Australia. Only lawyers.

MikeB4

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#1576755 19-Jun-2016 20:56

In line with dozens of posts on GZ about the incompetence of the Fourth Estate how accurate is the reporting.

DaveB

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#1576761 19-Jun-2016 21:05

MikeB4:

In line with dozens of posts on GZ about the incompetence of the Fourth Estate how accurate is the reporting.

In line with dozens of posts and opinions on GZ, it is only as accurate as you want it to be. Hence my question .... (but you've hit the nail on the head).

mattwnz

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#1576787 19-Jun-2016 21:56

joker97:

You don't know Australia. It's like America. Letters of the law, technicalities, and lawyers rule the land. I told my cousin (a barrister) about my house relocation and how I thought about hiring students from the SJS ... he almost tried to slap and choke me - because, as he explained, if he invited me to his house and I tripped on his lawn, he is liable for millions of dollars. Let alone hiring some kids to carry stuff around!

Anyway, there is no common sense in Australia. Only lawyers.

This makes me remember Muldoons classic quote about NZers leaving to live in Oz, raising the IQ of both countries.

NZ though is getting just as bad with some of the things coming in here. The SJS thing could potentially now happen here with some of the new laws. You now need signs in NZ for any potential risks on your land, otherwise you can be potentially liable for anyone injured on your land. When I had a cleaner in, they needed to erect all sorts of signs around the house warning of potential dangers. There was bigger risk tripping over the signs, as I did trip up on one of them.

Linuxluver

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#1576801 19-Jun-2016 22:35

DaveB:
Linuxluver:

I suspect this would be an excuse. If they liked her and valued her as an employee, not a word would have been said.

Her boss (or someone above her) clearly wanted her gone.

I'm amazed she lost.

You are more than likely correct. And therein lies my issue.

Nowadays, does it take many years for an employer to find the lamest of (irrelevant) excuses to fire somebody should their ability to perform their duties decline , or are employee rights so entrenched that they can be considered a bad employee and get away with it for an extended period of time?

And worse of all, regardless of the country involved - How can a council justify the legals costs involved of bringing this issue to the courts, especialy if they had lost, let alone the taxpayer costs of providing that court of hearing?

A person either performs their duties or they do not. To blame it on a cold left over sausage(s) is the most pathetic excuse I have seen.

A pc world gone mad again.

Your assuming the woman concerned is to blame. It could just as easily be some incompetent manager getting rid of a conscious employee who kept making them look bad.

I've seen that far more often than the reverse.

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#1576803 19-Jun-2016 22:35

yeah soon there will be no swings, monkey bars, playgrounds, trampolines, and definitely no camping!

mind you, OTOH, school trips have ended up with kids being washed into the sea forever. there needs to be some safety standards ...

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#1576805 19-Jun-2016 22:38

Linuxluver:
DaveB:

Linuxluver:

I suspect this would be an excuse. If they liked her and valued her as an employee, not a word would have been said.

Her boss (or someone above her) clearly wanted her gone.

I'm amazed she lost.

You are more than likely correct. And therein lies my issue.

Nowadays, does it take many years for an employer to find the lamest of (irrelevant) excuses to fire somebody should their ability to perform their duties decline , or are employee rights so entrenched that they can be considered a bad employee and get away with it for an extended period of time?

And worse of all, regardless of the country involved - How can a council justify the legals costs involved of bringing this issue to the courts, especialy if they had lost, let alone the taxpayer costs of providing that court of hearing?

A person either performs their duties or they do not. To blame it on a cold left over sausage(s) is the most pathetic excuse I have seen.

A pc world gone mad again.

Your assuming the woman concerned is to blame. It could just as easily be some incompetent manager getting rid of a conscious employee who kept making them look bad.

I've seen that far more often than the reverse.

You remind me of another thing in australia. you think tall poppy syndrome is bad here, it's worse in Oz. because they are very lazy!

In a "centre of excellence" I worked, we had a new employee. His job would be to respond to calls over the intercom and to attend his designated hubs. His seniors chewed his ear off for responding immediately. He yelled at i mean told to "sit down! don't go until the third call! [ie - we all wait for the third call, you are making us look bad]".

I was shocked! Over the next 12 months, I learnt that they all came to work to watch TV and flirt around.

MikeB4

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#1576808 19-Jun-2016 22:48

There is probably a lot more background to this, management does not take the dismissal option lightly, I certainly did not, it's a minefield that must be negotiated carefully

Geektastic

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#1576812 19-Jun-2016 23:21

joker97:

You don't know Australia. It's like America. Letters of the law, technicalities, and lawyers rule the land. I told my cousin (a barrister) about my house relocation and how I thought about hiring students from the SJS ... he almost tried to slap and choke me - because, as he explained, if he invited me to his house and I tripped on his lawn, he is liable for millions of dollars. Let alone hiring some kids to carry stuff around!

Anyway, there is no common sense in Australia. Only lawyers.

And yet I read somewhere that NZ has more lawyers as a percentage of the population than almost anywhere else.

In a country in which you cannot sue for incompetence, I was left wondering what they do all day!

MikeB4

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#1576854 20-Jun-2016 08:07

Geektastic:
joker97:

You don't know Australia. It's like America. Letters of the law, technicalities, and lawyers rule the land. I told my cousin (a barrister) about my house relocation and how I thought about hiring students from the SJS ... he almost tried to slap and choke me - because, as he explained, if he invited me to his house and I tripped on his lawn, he is liable for millions of dollars. Let alone hiring some kids to carry stuff around!

Anyway, there is no common sense in Australia. Only lawyers.

And yet I read somewhere that NZ has more lawyers as a percentage of the population than almost anywhere else.

In a country in which you cannot sue for incompetence, I was left wondering what they do all day!

Our percentage is not that different to other comparable counties

1. U.S. 1 lawyer for every 300 people
2. Brazil: 1 lawyer for every 326 people
3. New Zealand: 1 lawyer for every 391 people
4. Spain: 1 lawyer for every 395 people
5. UK: 1 lawyer for every 401 people
6. Italy: 1 lawyer for every 488 people
7. Germany: 1 lawyer for every 593 people
8. France: 1 lawyer for every 1,403 people

alasta

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#1576875 20-Jun-2016 08:57

Linuxluver:
Your assuming the woman concerned is to blame. It could just as easily be some incompetent manager getting rid of a conscious employee who kept making them look bad.

I've seen that far more often than the reverse.

Or possibly a manager who mistakenly thought she was underperforming because of bad advice or their own managerial inexperience. I have seen that a few times before.

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#1576890 20-Jun-2016 09:24

Geektastic:

joker97:

You don't know Australia. It's like America. Letters of the law, technicalities, and lawyers rule the land. I told my cousin (a barrister) about my house relocation and how I thought about hiring students from the SJS ... he almost tried to slap and choke me - because, as he explained, if he invited me to his house and I tripped on his lawn, he is liable for millions of dollars. Let alone hiring some kids to carry stuff around!

Anyway, there is no common sense in Australia. Only lawyers.

And yet I read somewhere that NZ has more lawyers as a percentage of the population than almost anywhere else.

In a country in which you cannot sue for incompetence, I was left wondering what they do all day!

Conveyance (commercial and residential - read AKL, CHCH, Trusts), divorce, etc ...

networkn

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#1576891 20-Jun-2016 09:27

Well, bottom line is, it's theft by the definition of the law. You might not like it, but on the other side, I don't think the rigmarole required to dismiss a staff member for underperforming is fair or reasonable either.

Before any of you start ranting about how I want to sack my staff with no notice and exploit them blah blah, don't bother. I am not stating that. No business person with a brain fires performing staff. It's bloody hard work training staff and when you find good staff, you hold on to them. I think some sort of middle ground needs to be found.

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