RNZAF Boeing 757 breaks down when carrying PM. RNZAF must have an atrocious dispatch reliability figure.

Forums › Off topic › RNZAF Boeing 757 breaks down when carrying PM. RNZAF must have an atrocious dispatch reliability figure.

amiga500

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#204955 24-Oct-2016 21:30

How often do we hear of an RNZAF aircraft breaking down when on an overseas trip or mission? Pretty damned often I'd say.

Airlines measure dispatch reliability as leaving on time or within 15 minutes when it's related to the plane and its systems. A poor figure would be

around 97% with some aircraft having well over 99% reliability. A delay caused by a crewing issue etc is not counted. For example if they had an issue with

a cargo hold loading system that jammed, & they could fix it in 5 minutes, that would be within the 15 minutes rule.

It would be fascinating to know what dispatch reliability the RNZAF fleet of aircraft has as a whole.

All too often we hear of a C130 Hercules breaking down and another plane sent to its rescue with some part/ parts!

If the RNZAF were a cargo airline they would have gone out of business years ago.

As a contrast Emirates fleet of A380's sometimes have a 100% dispatch reliability for a whole month!

And I would be willing to bet that Donald Trump's Boeing 757 has a whole lot better dispatch reliability figure!

It might be time for the Government to buy two new Airbus A320's, park them in Auckland, and let Air New Zealand operate them and service

them on behalf of the Government.

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#1657118 24-Oct-2016 21:41

Maybe this is what it will take to get the 757's replaced.

I think I read somewhere they considered Air NZ's 767s but they were too old

amiga500

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#1657122 24-Oct-2016 21:47

I'm sure age of the planes is a big part of the issue, but does the RNZAF have enough expertise and engineers to keep them flying reliably?

Personally, I would rather fly Air NZ, Qantas, Emirates, Jetstar, Virgin, than in any RNZAF plane. I would of course make an exception if I was

trapped halfway up a mountain with a broken leg, then I would be only too happy to be winched aboard an Air Force chopper!

darylblake

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#1657123 24-Oct-2016 21:50

They should fork out for a 787. or hold onto them a little longer. The 767s are considered old now there wouldn't be much benefit in buying air new zealands ones once they get their new aircraft.

TBH i dont know how often the RNZAF keep them in the skies.... maybe not enough to warrant a flash purchase.

clinty

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#1657125 24-Oct-2016 21:57

Funds have been allocated but these things cost a wee bit of coin ;)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80835677/defence-white-paper-20b-defence-upgrades-for-new-planes-boats-and-cyber-security

It's unveiled a $20 billion investment plan in defence force capability, which will see the military establish a new cyber support capability, bolster intelligence units and digitise the army on the battlefield, giving it network enabled navigation and communications systems.

It will also continue with programmes to replace New Zealand's aging fleet of Boeing 757s, C-130 Hercules and surveillance aircraft, the Orions.

clinty

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#1657127 24-Oct-2016 22:07

Although it appears the Orion upgrade is the only one on the books at the moment

http://www.airforce.mil.nz/projects/

Technofreak

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#1657130 24-Oct-2016 22:30

A320's won't do the job.

The 757's weren't new when the RNZAF got them.

Dispatch reliability figures can be smoke and mirrors.

Aircraft like the 757 are complex pieces of machinery and will become unserviceable often due to small obscure items. I suspect one issue the 757's have is lack of use rather than poor servicing. Yes they're old, but buying something new is hellish expensive for the amount of work they do.

Contracting out their work to the likes of Air New Zealand makes a lot of sense. How that is structured to ensure there's an available aircraft when it's needed would be a point of discussion

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amiga500

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#1657133 24-Oct-2016 22:49

Technofreak:

A320's won't do the job.

The 757's weren't new when the RNZAF got them.

Dispatch reliability figures can be smoke and mirrors.

Aircraft like the 757 are complex pieces of machinery and will become unserviceable often due to small obscure items. I suspect one issue the 757's have is lack of use rather than poor servicing. Yes they're old, but buying something new is hellish expensive for the amount of work they do.

Contracting out their work to the likes of Air New Zealand makes a lot of sense. How that is structured to ensure there's an available aircraft when it's needed would be a point of discussion

I read on one aircraft forum that there can be differences in how the airlines report their dispatch reliability figures. I was watching a video about the US Air Force One & that got stranded in the Middle East with some issue related to leaking hydraulics so it can happen to any aircraft.

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networkn

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#1657137 24-Oct-2016 22:57

It's unbelievable to me that the leader of our country does not have his own plane. No I am NOT kidding.

Ultimately leasing a reasonable plane for him to use, and for cabinet members to use when he doesn't need it, does not seem unreasonable. Not sure what the lease costs of a BD700 or similar would be?

Unfortunately, given the stupid fuss made over the CARS, I can't imagine what our left leaning members would make of the outrageous expenditure of a PLANE!

Doesn't seem sane to me to have our leader stranded in a country with a broken down plane. What if it has a serious malfunction and God forbid, crashes!? (And you can keep your snark to yourselves thanks).

sleemanj

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#1657149 24-Oct-2016 23:26

There isn't really a good direct replacement for the 757, as an aircraft it's a really very very good one, with excellent capability (and especially with the RNZAF mods) in terms of range, performance, and flexibility, for which there just isn't much of a rival. The best replacement for an old 757, is probably a new 757, unfortunately Boeing stopped production of them. On the bright side, the RNZAF would not have much trouble finding a buyer.

As for a "Key One", well, that's part of the 757 (and B200, everybody forgets about the poor old B200 fleet, unsung heros of the RNZAF if you ask me) roles. Being a small country, our assets are naturally multi-role where ever possible.

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Fred99

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#1657150 24-Oct-2016 23:34

darylblake:

They should fork out for a 787.

Oh please. To fly JK, a few officials and an air force cricket team non-stop to India etc once in a blue moon?

The 757s are due for replacement in 2020, the Orions in 2025.

IIRC P-8s (as on order by RAAF) or some military variant of an A321 Neo perhaps. Some comfy seats they can bung in for rare VIP needs.

NZ PM is not POTUS, nor leader of a banana republic. There's no need to "keep up" with either.

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#1657151 24-Oct-2016 23:50

Apparently it's about 1.2M USD a month to rent an A330. Probably cheaper to get a deal on two rows of business class, or to rent the entire business class cabin of a commercial airliner.

scottjpalmer

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#1657156 25-Oct-2016 01:28

Remember he doesn't always fly RNZAF, recent link.

Dratsab

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#1657162 25-Oct-2016 05:31

Technofreak: A320's won't do the job.

The 757's weren't new when the RNZAF got them.

Dispatch reliability figures can be smoke and mirrors.

Aircraft like the 757 are complex pieces of machinery and will become unserviceable often due to small obscure items. I suspect one issue the 757's have is lack of use rather than poor servicing. Yes they're old, but buying something new is hellish expensive for the amount of work they do.

Contracting out their work to the likes of Air New Zealand makes a lot of sense. How that is structured to ensure there's an available aircraft when it's needed would be a point of discussion

Actually, they have frequent usage flying people all over the place all the time. Whether it be troops (etc) to and from missions or to joint training ventures or dignitaries to events in places both near and far. I've been on the 757's a few times and (fortunately) they've been great every time. The Hercs, now they're a different story altogether...

k1wi

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#1657165 25-Oct-2016 06:45

Yeah, they do a lot more than just fly the prime minister. They were busy after the chch earthquake.

I've also never seen a civilian airline fly their commercial planes as hard as I have seen the RNZAF put theirs through their paces. That might add a little to the wear and tear budget.

MikeB4

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#1657166 25-Oct-2016 06:59

It is wrong to compare military transport to commercial transport be it land sea or air.

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