Fonterra is getting on my nerves

Forums › Off topic › Fonterra is getting on my nerves

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#215579 3-Jul-2017 17:36

I didn't realize the glass of milk I was drinking was diluted, because it was above average before Fonterra's tinkering. I bought some permeate free Meadowfresh milk, and it was so much better tasting.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/have-you-ever-wondered-whats-really-in-glass-milk

'Anchor blue top milk will soon be labelled 'standardised' following a Fair Go story that looks into the way our milk is made.'

'What if we told you 'standardised' involved diluting Mother Nature’s perfect food?'

Fonterra is changing its labels as rival food producer Goodman Fielder pitches its Meadowfresh blue top milk as containing 'no added permeate'.

'Permeate' and 'standardised' are unfamiliar jargon terms outside the dairy industry. So is it all marketing hype, or some much needed honesty for consumers of our favourite dairy drop?

Fonterra is dismissive of its major rival's permeate-free push.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/93500590/price-of-butter-continues-to-rise-above-5-a-block

"Price of butter continues to rise above $5 a block"

"The average price of butter is rising as global demand grows for fat.

A 500g block of salted butter had risen from $3.09 to $4.57 in the year to April, according to data from Statistics New Zealand."

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1811143 3-Jul-2017 17:43

Interesting.
I tend to agree that it's a bit of a dirty trick (adding permeate but not disclosing) and that as it would change the nutritional composition of whole milk, consumers should be told.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79257 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1811191 3-Jul-2017 18:42

From Nutrition Australia:

Permeate is the collective term for the milk-sugar (lactose), vitamins and minerals components of milk and is a valuable part of fresh milk. The addition of milk permeate to milk is one way of standardising the protein and fat content to a constant value throughout the year.

[This means] the composition of cow’s milk will vary on a daily basis. Processors review the composition of milk when it is delivered to them and standardise the components in milk to ensure consumers know they will receive the same quality product every time they purchase milk.

Does permeate affect the nutritional quality of my milk?
There is nothing in fresh milk that is not milk. No matter what product you choose, you can be assured it is a high quality and nutritious product containing all the 10 essential nutrients that milk naturally provides.

Why isn’t it labelled?
Permeate is simply a collective/technical term for the lactose, vitamin and mineral components that have been extracted from milk using ultrafiltration – so it is not adding any components that are not already in milk. This is why it is not labelled
Permeate is not necessarily used year round for standardisation and labels would need to be regularly changed to reflect this.

Does permeate increase the lactose content of milk?
The lactose level does not change from the stated value on the label. The whole point of standardisation is to keep this level from changing.

kiwifidget

"Cookie"
3418 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1811201 3-Jul-2017 18:55

I'm old enough to remember when milk and butter changed colour and/or flavour depending on the time of year.

Jersey cows and Friesian cows dont produce exactly the same milk.

Where you lived played a part too. There used to be dedicated town supply dairy farms coz the townies were more fussy about it.

Now we all get the same milk, all year, irrespective of where you live.

No added permeate does not mean permeate-free, as indeed no added sugar does not mean sugar free.

Delete cookies?! Are you insane?!

old3eyes

9119 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1811202 3-Jul-2017 18:58

Butter when on special these days is about $5 and normal price about $7. I saw last week that you can buy French butter at Pak n Save for the same price as NZ butter and I'm sure the French aren't pay the equivalent to $7 per 500 grams.

Regards,

Old3eyes

dafman

3925 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1811207 3-Jul-2017 19:02

We charge dairy farmers nothing for destroying our environment, yet Fonterra charge us like wounded bulls for overpriced dairy products.

From the NZ Herald : Homebrand Australian butter came in at $3.60 per 500g while New Zealand's Pam's 500g butter cost $5.19.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1811221 3-Jul-2017 19:26

freitasm:

From Nutrition Australia:

Permeate is the collective term for the milk-sugar (lactose), vitamins and minerals components of milk and is a valuable part of fresh milk. The addition of milk permeate to milk is one way of standardising the protein and fat content to a constant value throughout the year.

[This means] the composition of cow’s milk will vary on a daily basis. Processors review the composition of milk when it is delivered to them and standardise the components in milk to ensure consumers know they will receive the same quality product every time they purchase milk.

Does permeate affect the nutritional quality of my milk?
There is nothing in fresh milk that is not milk. No matter what product you choose, you can be assured it is a high quality and nutritious product containing all the 10 essential nutrients that milk naturally provides.

Why isn’t it labelled?
Permeate is simply a collective/technical term for the lactose, vitamin and mineral components that have been extracted from milk using ultrafiltration – so it is not adding any components that are not already in milk. This is why it is not labelled
Permeate is not necessarily used year round for standardisation and labels would need to be regularly changed to reflect this.

Does permeate increase the lactose content of milk?
The lactose level does not change from the stated value on the label. The whole point of standardisation is to keep this level from changing.

Yes - but that's "standardised" milk.

While standardising perhaps reduces the chance that someone will run a water hose into the tank to sell dilute milk as whole, it's changing the composition of what came out of the cow.

That varies seasonally, from breed to breed etc. as it does with other "natural" products, bananas or crocodile flesh probably. Mother's milk too I expect. I'd probably not choose to eat crocodile flesh or bananas that had been "standardised" in the manner that milk is, but YMMV.

One thing I'm sure of, "standardised" milk tastes nothing like the bottled whole pasteurized milk that I had delivered to the front gate as a kid, and even further away from the stuff we used to get from Trixie the cow when staying on the family farm.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79257 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1811223 3-Jul-2017 19:29

old3eyes: Butter when on special these days is about $5 and normal price about $7. I saw last week that you can buy French butter at Pak n Save for the same price as NZ butter and I'm sure the French aren't pay the equivalent to $7 per 500 grams.

We buy two different butter here at home: Lurpak spreadable for... spreading and Lewis Road butter for cooking.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1811241 3-Jul-2017 19:36

kiwifidget:

No added permeate does not mean permeate-free, as indeed no added sugar does not mean sugar free.

That's not correct.

No added permeate certainly should mean permeate-free.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18658 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1811246 3-Jul-2017 19:45

I am vegetarian, in the sense that I don't eat meat. I do consume dairy products. I love cheese (yes, I know how it is made, there are vegetarian equivalents) but I don't care for milk. I don't object to it in principle, I just don't like the taste and prefer soy.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Ge0rge

2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1811248 3-Jul-2017 19:46

Fred99:

kiwifidget:

No added permeate does not mean permeate-free, as indeed no added sugar does not mean sugar free.

That's not correct.

No added permeate certainly should mean permeate-free.

Well, no :

"Permeate is the collective term for the milk-sugar (lactose), vitamins and minerals components of milk and is a valuable part of fresh milk."

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1812228 3-Jul-2017 20:20

Ge0rge:

Fred99:

kiwifidget:

No added permeate does not mean permeate-free, as indeed no added sugar does not mean sugar free.

That's not correct.

No added permeate certainly should mean permeate-free.

Well, no :

"Permeate is the collective term for the milk-sugar (lactose), vitamins and minerals components of milk and is a valuable part of fresh milk."

That is not correct - it's marketing gobbledygook / playing with words.

"Permeate" is an extract from milk - added back to milk. Not the same milk it was taken from.

Get it?

If not, then I give up. Believe what you want.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79257 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1812237 3-Jul-2017 20:32

Even Gareth Morgan disagrees:

Let’s start with the watering down: permeate and lactose are being added to a lot of our milk. Permeate is the natural sugars found in milk (known as lactose) left over from the cheese-making process. Smaller milk processors claim the big guys are using permeate or other lactose to “pad” out milk production, but our big milk processors claim to use permeate so that they can “standardise protein levels throughout the year”.

Disappointingly, this claim does stand up to scrutiny.

Yes, milk protein levels fluctuate throughout the year “peaking” at more than 4.4 per cent in April and May before dropping to almost 3.6 per cent in winter. The overall average amount of protein in milk works out at about 3.8 per cent over the year. Protein is pretty important for building muscle and quelling our appetite, but protein is doubly important in milk because it also carries calcium with it.

So what is the protein content of a standard bottle of Meadow Fresh milk? Is it the average for milk over the year (3.8 per cent)? No, it is 3.1 per cent, some 18 per cent lower than the average litre of milk the processor gets from the cow. Trim milk varieties have proportionally more protein, but this is only because the cream (which is mostly fat) has been removed. The standard milk we buy is not the same as what comes from the cow.

The reason they choose a protein level of 3.1 per cent is to keep it just above the rather arbitrary regulated lower limit for protein levels in milk (3 per cent). In other words this is where they would have to legally stop calling it milk. Be under no illusion, the industry seeks to minimise the amount of protein they have to leave in the milk because they can get more profit separating it out and selling it to American bodybuilders. If the regulator was to say the minimum for standard milk was 2 per cent protein, do you think that’s not what you’d get? Producers should have to tell the truth on the label – for example declaring the added lactose or permeate, or calling it “diluted” or “imitation” milk. Given the regulator is asleep at its post, let’s hope a company can find a marketing edge in selling the real stuff.

And from here:

It's a way to utilise ALL the components of milk and provide a consistent product from season to season even though the fat content say may vary over time.

We think the REAL problem with permeate doesn’t lie with its use, or its composition or the fact that it was once considered "excess". The problem we have with it is that consumers don’t know they buying it. Now niche milk companies are cashing in on this with claims that their milk is "permeate-free" and you'll pay a premium for it (see example below).

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1812241 3-Jul-2017 20:40

Our dairy products didnt drop by very much during the darkest days of the low dairy prices.....yet they are going up now because of it.

Aussies get cheese, milk and butter much cheaper than us.

Fonterra is routing kiwis!!

It also seems cheaper supermarket milk brands have much more permeate.....!!!

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1812244 3-Jul-2017 20:50

kingdragonfly: I didn't realize the glass of milk I was drinking was diluted, because it was above average before Fonterra's tinkering. I bought some permeate free Meadowfresh milk, and it was so much better tasting.

Do you really think Meadow Fresh is any different to Anchor? Think you might be surprised.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#1812246 3-Jul-2017 20:53

freitasm:

Even Gareth Morgan disagrees:

So what is the protein content of a standard bottle of Meadow Fresh milk? Is it the average for milk over the year (3.8 per cent)? No, it is 3.1 per cent, some 18 per cent lower than the average litre of milk the processor gets from the cow. Trim milk varieties have proportionally more protein, but this is only because the cream (which is mostly fat) has been removed. The standard milk we buy is not the same as what comes from the cow.

Given the regulator is asleep at its post, let’s hope a company can find a marketing edge in selling the real stuff.

That is correct.

I think the argument for using permeate in standardisation by the authorities is a bit biased and a little disingenuous.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5