Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

#220145 27-Jul-2017 17:55
Send private message

I am one of two administering a Will as an Executor. Assets all liquidated, the beneficiaries are due their amount when their age is met. No problem there.

 

There is a term "apply for the maintenance, education, or benefit of any minor beneficiary [that they are or will be entitled to, etc, etc]

 

 

 

This means that we can allow any funds to be advanced early, an example is education, which we are doing for one beneficiary. Another appropriate use is if there were a desire to purchase a home. Better now than later for the beneficiaries future. A wonderful use of the funds. Note that the age of entitlement is 26, not the typical 21. The issue is one wants funds to outfit a flat, literally top to bottom, cat=r, TV and so on as a baby is due. Age is under 20. The term in the Will is quite typical, I assume. But its vague. I take maintenance as a situation where there is a personal need, or affecting the personal life that cannot wait, and is very necessary. What however does "benefit" mean? That can mean anything. The lawyer is of the opinion that education, buying a house, and other very necessary things are appropriate. But the word "benefit" isn't helpful. He doesn't feel there is a legal or judicial definition. I can add the intent and attitudes of the deceased as to her desires, but I assume the real need is some form of definition of maintenance and benefit in the context of a Will

 

Another issue, is the word minor. Thats 20 or under here. What happens when they reach 21? 

 

TIA

 

 


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
surfisup1000
5288 posts

Uber Geek


  #1832441 27-Jul-2017 18:37
Send private message

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




Geektastic
17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832447 27-Jul-2017 18:50
Send private message

Personally I would read that as an expression intended to give you (the executors) the ability to use your discretion. 

 

I don't think it is meant to have a more literal definition than that. JMO of course and IANAL.






tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832448 27-Jul-2017 18:50
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Age of majority here is 21 I think. The Will decrees age 26. We can't administer a Will and not carry out the terms of that Will. There is flexibility for need, but cars, TV etc etc and etc are part of life, everyone sets themselves up. Its essentially taking the money now, not when due. IMHO.  




surfisup1000
5288 posts

Uber Geek


  #1832449 27-Jul-2017 18:55
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

Age of majority here is 21 I think. The Will decrees age 26. We can't administer a Will and not carry out the terms of that Will. There is flexibility for need, but cars, TV etc etc and etc are part of life, everyone sets themselves up. Its essentially taking the money now, not when due. IMHO.  

 

 

Yep, I'd agree with you. 

 

Baby on the way? Having kids is part of life too so even that may be out of the scope of this will. 


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832450 27-Jul-2017 18:55
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

Personally I would read that as an expression intended to give you (the executors) the ability to use your discretion. 

 

I don't think it is meant to have a more literal definition than that. JMO of course and IANAL.

 

 

Yep. Discretion is there. The issue we face is want vs need. Have it now, or have it when due. Both of which contravene the Will's intention and yes, while I have done some law in financial degrees, IANAL. It's not that we are the deciders, in fact we make no decisions, literally, the Will does, and the intention of the Will, such as education and maintenance. But benefit? We have indicated we can meet the baby needs.

 

I really enjoyed the law studies, Contract, Company and Partnership, and Torts, but there is an amount of interpretation, assessing intent, that type of thing. P+L and a B/Sheet, nah thats B+W!


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832454 27-Jul-2017 19:02
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

Age of majority here is 21 I think. The Will decrees age 26. We can't administer a Will and not carry out the terms of that Will. There is flexibility for need, but cars, TV etc etc and etc are part of life, everyone sets themselves up. Its essentially taking the money now, not when due. IMHO.  

 

 

Yep, I'd agree with you. 

 

Baby on the way? Having kids is part of life too so even that may be out of the scope of this will. 

 

 

 I really agree, yeah. We can cover that, as I see that as a "benefit" and more importantly, what their Grandparent would do. To put another way, at 26 they do what they like. At up to that age, its kept back for a reason, but discretion for help is there. But setting up a flat/house is what everyone has to do one day. The amount is significant as is the baby needs, and these represent just 10%

 

Early on, the lawyer did say that Will proceeds do things to people. Its common.  


surfisup1000
5288 posts

Uber Geek


  #1832455 27-Jul-2017 19:04
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

Age of majority here is 21 I think. The Will decrees age 26. We can't administer a Will and not carry out the terms of that Will. There is flexibility for need, but cars, TV etc etc and etc are part of life, everyone sets themselves up. Its essentially taking the money now, not when due. IMHO.  

 

 

Yep, I'd agree with you. 

 

Baby on the way? Having kids is part of life too so even that may be out of the scope of this will. 

 

 

 I really agree, yeah. We can cover that, as I see that as a "benefit" and more importantly, what their Grandparent would do. To put another way, at 26 they do what they like. At up to that age, its kept back for a reason, but discretion for help is there. But setting up a flat/house is what everyone has to do one day. The amount is significant as is the baby needs, and these represent just 10%

 

Early on, the lawyer did say that Will proceeds do things to people. Its common.  

 

 

I reckon 30'ish would be a good age to release funds. Thinking back on it myself, so much temptation to waste cash on rubbish unimportant things when you're young.   21 is certainly too young. 


 
 
 

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.
geocom
594 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #1832458 27-Jul-2017 19:05
Send private message

You have to be careful in making a decision to allow the funds to be disbursed from your trust as you would be liable if the beneficiary of the will squanders the money as they have not reached the age of entitlement. The Deceased decided for whatever reason that they thought the person would not be able to handle the money before the age at 26 unless the funds were for education or a house, The testator has put you in the position of making the decisions that the testator would have made.  The sound advice would be to err on the side of caution.





Geoff E


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832461 27-Jul-2017 19:14
Send private message

geocom:

 

You have to be careful in making a decision to allow the funds to be disbursed from your trust as you would be liable if the beneficiary of the will squanders the money as they have not reached the age of entitlement. The Deceased decided for whatever reason that they thought the person would not be able to handle the money before the age at 26 unless the funds were for education or a house, The testator has put you in the position of making the decisions that the testator would have made.  The sound advice would be to err on the side of caution.

 

 

Very much so. 


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832462 27-Jul-2017 19:17
Send private message

surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

tdgeek:

 

surfisup1000:

 

In my view, the intent of this will is to provide funds to the beneficiary for any situation where there is a higher than normal need for money until the age of 26.  

 

While the word minor is used it does not make sense to cut them off between 21 and 25,  when the rest of the wording seems to want to give them money in times of need -- anyway, isn't a minor under 16? That is when you legally require a guardian. 

 

 

Age of majority here is 21 I think. The Will decrees age 26. We can't administer a Will and not carry out the terms of that Will. There is flexibility for need, but cars, TV etc etc and etc are part of life, everyone sets themselves up. Its essentially taking the money now, not when due. IMHO.  

 

 

Yep, I'd agree with you. 

 

Baby on the way? Having kids is part of life too so even that may be out of the scope of this will. 

 

 

 I really agree, yeah. We can cover that, as I see that as a "benefit" and more importantly, what their Grandparent would do. To put another way, at 26 they do what they like. At up to that age, its kept back for a reason, but discretion for help is there. But setting up a flat/house is what everyone has to do one day. The amount is significant as is the baby needs, and these represent just 10%

 

Early on, the lawyer did say that Will proceeds do things to people. Its common.  

 

 

I reckon 30'ish would be a good age to release funds. Thinking back on it myself, so much temptation to waste cash on rubbish unimportant things when you're young.   21 is certainly too young. 

 

 

You're right. Preserve the benefit of the sum of money. Education and a home, they can do that literally early birds as its a lifelong benefit. But if not, 26, you can do what you like. I also feel that there is a perception that we decide. Well, no, we don't, the Will has decided that, its just this grey area.


Pumpedd
1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1832479 27-Jul-2017 20:01
Send private message

I would hope you seek professional help on this matter!!


tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832487 27-Jul-2017 20:23
Send private message

Pumpedd:

 

I would hope you seek professional help on this matter!!

 

 

I have discussed with the lawyer. If you saw the list of items, quite comprehensive, to say the least. That does taint the intent from the beneficiary, if you get what I mean. His strong opinion aligned with mine, but its grey as in the wording.

 

Lets say we were pressed by the beneficiaries to court. If the intent of the will, the 26 age, and the wording, and us acting in a reasonable manner as to anything that were declined, and matters relating to family behaviours I have seen, I would feel comfortable. We arent trying to hang on to the money, its not ours, its theirs.   In some ways, the 26 age is an indicator of financial trust held by the testator to the beneficiaries


lapimate
352 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832560 27-Jul-2017 22:11
Send private message

tdgeek:... or benefit of any minor beneficiary ...
What about attacking the problem from the perspective of what a dis-benefit would be? Eg champagne every morning? Some might have puritanical views about whether TVs are a "necessity", but since so many have them and even let their teenage children view them, the evidence suggests TVs must generally be perceived as a "benefit" not a "dis-benefit".


Geektastic
17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1832567 27-Jul-2017 23:08
Send private message

It's a bit like drafting a Trust Deed.

 

The Trustees will usually be placed in the position of having to use their best endeavours to determine some aspect of the Settlor's intent. The courts would usually only expect people in those positions to do the best they can. As long as you've taken professional advice, not acted in contravention of it and the trustees (or, in this case, executors) have discussed it and agreed a course of action that the man on the Clapham Omnibus would not consider unreasonable  it is unlikely the court would consider that you should have done more (what more can you do, for a start?) although I guess you never know with the law.

 

If it were me, I would personally define benefit in this context as being something that has lasting positive outcomes for the beneficiaries. I'd say that within that sort of area you as executors are actually entitled to use your judgement and that the person who made the will intended you to do so because otherwise they would have been absolutely specific and left it (for example) as education and maintenance.






Bung
6477 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #1832590 28-Jul-2017 01:00
Send private message

tdgeek:
Another issue, is the word minor. Thats 20 or under here. What happens when they reach 21


IANAL but I believe the age of majority in NZ is generally 20 but certain Acts define minor as under 18. There is some suggestion that the Age of Majority Act should also be changed to 18.

 1 | 2
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.