NZ fees-free study

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kingdragonfly

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#225778 5-Dec-2017 12:56

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11953327

"All New Zealanders who have done less than half a fulltime year of post-school education or training will be eligible to study fees-free next year.

Education Minister Chris Hipkins says about 30,000 students are expected to study fees-free at university in the first year, and 50,000 in polytechnics, wānanga, private colleges, apprenticeships and other industry training.

Apprentices and industry trainees will get two years of fees-free training because their courses are less than fulltime.

There will be no age restrictions"

Official website

https://www.feesfree.govt.nz/

You'll need your National Student Number (NSN)

https://www.education.govt.nz/school/managing-and-supporting-students/national-student-number-nsn-for-schools/#what

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761 posts

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#1913298 5-Dec-2017 13:27

Waste of money.

I pay my student loan off this week, and that system works well. The government already subsidised most of my uni costs, and I was left paying back $50k over 10 years - and happy to do so.

TOP had a good discussion about where to better spend that money on education: http://www.top.org.nz/top_dubs_labour_s_tertiary_policy_as_middle_class_welfare

Pumpedd

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#1913324 5-Dec-2017 13:54

Guess its great we live in such a wealthy country that enables this sort of subsidy to all.

Linux

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#1913325 5-Dec-2017 13:57

Should be the last year of study free once you have done most of the hard work and show you are commited

Linux

frankv

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#1913333 5-Dec-2017 14:09

NZ needs graduates. It makes sense to invest in them. The fact the individuals benefit too is a good side-effect.

Not only does this open up tertiary education to a lot of people who otherwise couldn't afford it, but it improves the average employability of the population and the economy improves from that too.

Further down the track, these people will have less debt so be able to purchase a house earlier and save for their retirement, and won't leave the country to avoid a crippling repayment burden.

Sam91

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#1913358 5-Dec-2017 14:41

I'm not a huge fan of this policy. I'm currently an undergraduate student studying economics and finance. During my studies I have encountered so many people who should not be at university. It seems to the norm these days to drift through a degree with poor grades. With the introduction of this policy, I can see this becoming a greater problem.

As Linux has already suggested, at a bare minimum I would only wipe the loan upon the completion of the degree. I would actually go a step further and incentivise academic performance. If you achieve a "B" average or higher (a low bar) throughout your degree you get your education free. If you fail to achieve that goal, you're stuck with the existing interest free loan system which is already pretty generous.

I think the policy should've targeted certain skill shortages, rather than just giving every student a free education. For example, I think it's a good idea to incentivise apprenticeships in high demand fields by making the training free, but I don't agree with making all degrees free. My own degree probably falls into that category as well.

Geektastic

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#1913370 5-Dec-2017 14:50

If I want to go back to university, we'll loose 100% of my income whilst I study and get no living allowance to replace it.

Who pays the fees is barely relevant.

frankv

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#1913381 5-Dec-2017 15:10

Sam91:

For example, I think it's a good idea to incentivise apprenticeships in high demand fields by making the training free, but I don't agree with making all degrees free.

This would have been a great idea 3-10 years ago. It's *way* too late to do it now. But it will probably be a good idea for the next building boom.

OTOH, I'm not sure that the cost of training is a sensible way to choose a profession or trade for rest of your life. "I'll become a plumber because the training is free so I've got nothing to lose" seems to me to be a recipe for lots of people leaving the trade at the first opportunity, which would be very wasteful.

What we should be doing is identifying people who would be good at a trade, and want to do it, and helping them along.

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mattwnz

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#1913408 5-Dec-2017 16:10

Geektastic:

If I want to go back to university, we'll loose 100% of my income whilst I study and get no living allowance to replace it.

Who pays the fees is barely relevant.

I am guessing it would benefit those who didn't have income, or to want to increase their income, and can take a short hit in income. Also it would probably benefit those in a couple more, as one person can continue to work, while the other studies.

But many people who are over 20 have done at least a year of tertiary study anyway, so it is likely to mainly benefit those coming straight out of school. But people are still potentially going to come out of uni with huge loans. It may save between 20-30% of the course cost. But it is often the courses after the 1st year that are the most expensive.

mattwnz

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#1913410 5-Dec-2017 16:13

It isn't great for those people who need to reskill, or need a career change, if they have already been to uni. These can be people who need the most financial help. The first year at uni can be the party year in many cases for people straight out of high school, so not all that keen on my taxpayer money being spent on that. It think this change could make it more of an automatic thing for people to go straight from high school into uni, when that may not be the best place for them. I recall my 1st year at uni, and that was the case and many people were just there for the social aspect, and the courses in the first year were more basic ones, almost a repeat of 7th form stuff in the cases of physics and maths etc. I had to get good grade in that 1st intermediate year to be accepted into the professional degree, and that is when the fees start to bite.

Dingbatt

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#1913419 5-Dec-2017 16:22

So I'm funding this farce as well as paying for all my own children's tuition.
The last Labour tertiary bribe (interest free) was a masterstroke, but this is poorly implemented and smacks of a 'do something, anything to show we keep our promises', mentality.
I am an advocate of 'free' tertiary education, after all it's what I got. If they are going to phase it in surely it should be in reverse and only on successful completion of study.
I'm more in favour of NZF's policy of forgiving the loan the longer you work in NZ on completion of study. Even to the point of making student loan repayments tax deductible as well.
Introducing a scheme to only reward higher passes with zero fees is a recipe for disaster, where instead of producing the best graduate, you will get someone who has taken the easiest path to achieve high marks. Also, in the socialist world you cannot reward people for being clever, and will there be scaling based on ethnicity, gender, orientation, etc because of starting from a position of disadvantage? That could more effectively be covered by scholarships.
The government could achieve more by paying science graduate's fees to get them to train as maths and science teachers, something suggested by the Post Primary Principal's group.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

epr

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#1913439 5-Dec-2017 17:07

frankv:
NZ needs graduates. It makes sense to invest in them. The fact the individuals benefit too is a good side-effect.

Not only does this open up tertiary education to a lot of people who otherwise couldn't afford it, but it improves the average employability of the population and the economy improves from that too.

Further down the track, these people will have less debt so be able to purchase a house earlier and save for their retirement, and won't leave the country to avoid a crippling repayment burden.

This idea works for multi year courses but discriminates against people doing 1 year courses and the idea is to move to all 3 years free so why not start with the first year.

mattwnz

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#1913464 5-Dec-2017 17:32

epr:
frankv:

NZ needs graduates. It makes sense to invest in them. The fact the individuals benefit too is a good side-effect.

Not only does this open up tertiary education to a lot of people who otherwise couldn't afford it, but it improves the average employability of the population and the economy improves from that too.

Further down the track, these people will have less debt so be able to purchase a house earlier and save for their retirement, and won't leave the country to avoid a crippling repayment burden.

This idea works for multi year courses but discriminates against people doing 1 year courses and the idea is to move to all 3 years free so why not start with the first year.

The problem is that it makes it more enticing to do study in NZ, and then move overseas, where you can make a lot more money. Currently if you do this with a big loan, you have to pay interest on your loan, but you don't if you stay in NZ. But if you don't need a loan, then you aren't generating interest, so can go overseas without increasing the amount borrowed. So the taxpayer misses out on that interest as well.

I think it is far better to do what Winston wanted, and that is to bond graduates to NZ, so if they remain living in NZ, their loan is automatically wiped over time.

Dingbatt

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#1913474 5-Dec-2017 18:06

And what makes me even angrier is my son has completed his first year but wants to change his course of study. So he will now begin again in first year classes where it is likely he will be the only one in his lectures that has to pay for his course. And because every class will be chocker with people that don't even know if they want to be there, the quality of service provided will be diminished.

We have at least three sets of friends whose children have no idea what they want to study, but are going to University because it's free.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

vexxxboy

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#1913475 5-Dec-2017 18:08

dont forget that the student allowance has risen by $50 a week , so why would you go on the dole , join a university or polytechnic for a year and not worry about passing your course and get more money than the unemployment benefit with with none of the drawbacks. Ii will happen.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Sam91

620 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1913480 5-Dec-2017 18:19

^You have to pass half your papers each semester to receive the allowance the following semester. Your point is still very valid.

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