Trademe - A flaw in their feedback system?

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Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek

#62048 28-May-2010 13:40

Hi,

Let me first give a brief rundown of a recent experience I had with a trade that went wrong.

I had an item on TM which the auction expired on Sun 23 May at approx 8:30pm. The one and only bidder won the auction with a reserved met bid.

I contacted the successful bidder on Monday morning, and asked them to contact me to arrange collection. I then emailed them again on Tuesday afternoon after not hearing anything. I received a text on Tuesday night saying "sorry I haven't contacted you yet, please give me the address for pickup". I texted back straight away with the address, and asked what day/time suited.

Thursday afternoon rolls around and I hadn't received a reply yet. So I texted again asking them to either pick up that night, or make a deposit to my bank account to secure the item. Got a text Thursday night saying "Sorry I prob can't make deposit until Sat. Can I come around on Sat to pick up and pay cash?"

I texted back and said I would wait until then, but if they fail to show I will be forced to relist the item and leave negative feedback. Also asked in same text if we could arrange a time now, and suggested 10am. No reply so sent another text asking if 10am was ok. Friday afternoon now and still no reply.

I did say brief at the start, didn't I?? :)

Anyway, if I now leave them negative feedback because they have failed to complete the trade, and have been very elusive in terms of communication, I will open myself up for negative feedback from them in return. A blot against my otherwise perfect trading record.

How fair is this given I've tried my best to complete the trade? All this will look like is that we had a dispute and it is up to interpretation of future traders who was in the wrong. What do others think on this subject?

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4582 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#335783 28-May-2010 13:49

I think though that if the buyer does not complete the auction you can claim back the success fees.
Then the auction becomes null/void that pretty much stops the buyer from being able to put any feedback on you doesn't it?

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

patatrat

261 posts

Ultimate Geek

#335786 28-May-2010 13:50

Fair? no.
But there isn't any other way for this system to work.

Imagine; a bad trader places undeserved bad feedback on you. The current 'flawed' system allows you to also place bad feedback on them. That is a good thing!

Its not a bug - its a feature!

So, how does this play out in real life?

Considering the way the system works, people understand that it is basically impossible to get 100% positive feedback if you use trademe for any extended period of time, regardless of how awesome you are. So people overlook 1 or 2 'reds' when the majority are positive.

The bad trader however, get significantly more negative feedbacks, and eventually people decided not to trade with them, or they get banned (in which case all the feedback they have placed gets removed).

Also note that the feedback system give you a chance to tell your side of the story by commenting on each item of feedback. Use this to tell your story (in a sane way - no one likes seeing name calling).

Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek

#335787 28-May-2010 13:53

But I'm really awesome.

muppet

2568 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#335791 28-May-2010 13:59

It's a problem, yes.
I had a trade "go bad" on me. The seller has given me half of what he said and not the other half. I don't mind too much, as I kept back a portion of the money.

But anyway, he's given me feedback (Good), but I don't want to put my feedback (terrible trader, rang and rang and arrrrgh) on his because he can just change his and I'm stuck. Plus they've disabled his account now anyway (not due to me) so that speaks volumes.

The best thing is to just do nothing in my opinion.

Audiophiles are such twits! They buy such pointless stuff: Gold plated cables, $2000 power cords. Idiots.

OOOHHHH HYPERFIBRE!

cgrew

860 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#335792 28-May-2010 14:00

It's not fair at all mate - best thing to do is try and contact trade me over the phone and report the buyer that failed to complete the trade.

And hopefully trade me can offer some sort of solution for future reference if this sort of situation happens again.

NZCoderGuy

513 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Kiwi Dev Studios

#335794 28-May-2010 14:01

Bad feedback doesnt always get removed when a user is disabled. I have one on mine and enquired with @TradeMe on twitter, and that its not policy to remove it automatically.

--
Stephen
twitter/ NZCoderGuy / KiwiDevStudios

Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek

#335796 28-May-2010 14:05

cgrew: ...best thing to do is try and contact trade me over the phone and report the buyer that failed to complete the trade.

I'd rather take the negative feedback than spend $2-3 a minute talking to TM about it. I sent them a message about it last night anyway so waiting to see their response.

The problem is that this trader has a decent record, so a second negative feedback is not going to stand out much and he'll get away with it at my expense. Although this will only be his second negative, it will be two in a row...

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patatrat

261 posts

Ultimate Geek

#335798 28-May-2010 14:15

gtxboyracer: Bad feedback doesnt always get removed when a user is disabled. I have one on mine and enquired with @TradeMe on twitter, and that its not policy to remove it automatically.

I stand corrected. Although I am sure that I've had bad feedback removed from a disabled trader without asking before... but that was probably a good 3 years ago.

NZCoderGuy

513 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Kiwi Dev Studios

#335799 28-May-2010 14:20

patatrat:
gtxboyracer: Bad feedback doesnt always get removed when a user is disabled. I have one on mine and enquired with @TradeMe on twitter, and that its not policy to remove it automatically.

I stand corrected. Although I am sure that I've had bad feedback removed from a disabled trader without asking before... but that was probably a good 3 years ago.

They did say, they can do it, but not at user request - think its more of a year maintenance thing possibly?

--
Stephen
twitter/ NZCoderGuy / KiwiDevStudios

cgrew

860 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#335806 28-May-2010 14:54

Satch:
cgrew: ...best thing to do is try and contact trade me over the phone and report the buyer that failed to complete the trade.

I'd rather take the negative feedback than spend $2-3 a minute talking to TM about it. I sent them a message about it last night anyway so waiting to see their response.

The problem is that this trader has a decent record, so a second negative feedback is not going to stand out much and he'll get away with it at my expense. Although this will only be his second negative, it will be two in a row...

In that case best thing to do is wait to hear back from trade me via e-mail then.

scuwp

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#335808 28-May-2010 15:03

Firstly I think your apparent expectations of gettng a sale completed within 1 - 2 days are a little high. You are not even 6 days on and are stressing about it? I often have trades that are only completed on weekends so often have to wait around till then.

You can add a comment to any feedback you get. As a buyer I always check this, and if it is only 1 or 2 bad feedbacks I go and have a look at the person placing it. It is normally plainly obvious when someone is being an unreasonable dork.

Lastly you can always put a (realistic) timeframe on the auction, eg "contact within 3 days and sale completed within 7" or something like that. At least they are fairly warned.

Good luck.

Byrned

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#335809 28-May-2010 15:11

I believe TradeMe recognise the problems around this, but unfortunately there is no easy system that is completely fair.

That's why they say anyone with Feedback of 96% or higher is probably a good trader.

I've got a 99% record because of the exact same scenario - I don't care because that person has a 95% rating which I believe shows what a crap trader they are.

cgrew

860 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#335811 28-May-2010 15:12

scuwp: Firstly I think your apparent expectations of gettng a sale completed within 1 - 2 days are a little high. You are not even 6 days on and are stressing about it? I often have trades that are only completed on weekends so often have to wait around till then.

You can add a comment to any feedback you get. As a buyer I always check this, and if it is only 1 or 2 bad feedbacks I go and have a look at the person placing it. It is normally plainly obvious when someone is being an unreasonable dork.

Lastly you can always put a (realistic) timeframe on the auction, eg "contact within 3 days and sale completed within 7" or something like that. At least they are fairly warned.

Good luck.

Hmm I'm gonna have to disagree on that one scuwp - as satch mentioned, he tried to contact the buyer numerous times and had no answer. To be honest if you are the winner of the auction - it is your responsibility to keep in contact with the seller. It goes both ways.

It quite clearly states this under the T's & C's on trade me.

Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek

#335832 28-May-2010 16:14

scuwp: Firstly I think your apparent expectations of gettng a sale completed within 1 - 2 days are a little high. You are not even 6 days on and are stressing about it? I often have trades that are only completed on weekends so often have to wait around till then.

You can add a comment to any feedback you get. As a buyer I always check this, and if it is only 1 or 2 bad feedbacks I go and have a look at the person placing it. It is normally plainly obvious when someone is being an unreasonable dork.

Lastly you can always put a (realistic) timeframe on the auction, eg "contact within 3 days and sale completed within 7" or something like that. At least they are fairly warned.

Good luck.

I suggest you read my original post again. Thanks.

Satch

1985 posts

Uber Geek

#335833 28-May-2010 16:15

Just got a reply from TM:

Thanks for contacting us. When an auction closes online both parties are given the ability to place whatever feedback they feel is appropriate. However if another member puts a feedback on you that's clearly in retaliation to one you've put on them let us know as we can remove those under our Code of Conduct.

You can get a refund of your success fees by taking the following steps:

1. Go to your 'Sold items' page
2. Select the auction you require a refund for
3. At the bottom of the 'Seller's options' box there is a heading that states 'If the sale falls through...'
4. Below this there is a link that states: To request a refund of your success fees 'click here'.

Please note that the refund process can only be started after the auction has been expired for 3 days. This is to encourage both buyer and seller to complete the trade.

A refund claim must be made within 28 days of the end of the auction or the expiry of any fixed price offer. If it has been more than 28 days please contact us for more information.

Depending on the number of refunds you have requested and the value of the refund, your refund may be automatically processed. If this is the case then no blue kiwis will be placed.

Otherwise, we will email the buyer and ask them for their side of the story. Once we have this, or after a maximum of 5 days, we will make a decision on whether you are eligible for a refund and email you the outcome.

Please note: if your refund is approved, you need to confirm that you still require it by clicking the link in the email.

If a refund is granted a comment from Trade Me (Blue kiwi) will be placed on both your feedback and the buyer's feedback record - this will not affect your overall feedback rating. You should also post feedback on any members that you deal with.

If you have further questions regarding this issue please reply and we will answer your email as soon as possible.

Interesting to see that you can challenge negative feedback if it is clear it is for retaliation only.

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