Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

quickymart

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#243808 3-Jan-2019 08:50

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109111365/halfabillion-dollars-invested-but-is-broadband-really-reaching-rural-people

I was surprised to see the low takeup of Wireless RBI - I thought it would have been higher than that. Yet I can imagine the same people who haven't connected who are stuck on a Conkin, but are more than happy to jump up and down about their "crap" broadband.

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#2153709 3-Jan-2019 10:26

I gathered the Conklin DSLAM's are pretty much history.

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quickymart

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#2153716 3-Jan-2019 10:35

There's still a few of them around, but not nearly as many as there used to be.

Coil

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#2153721 3-Jan-2019 10:47

>Lives in the middle of no where with no infrastructure
>Expects to gain access to world leading convenient high density infrastructure at no cost to them
>Expects companies to lose huge amounts of money to serve them out of "principal"
>Wont accept existing rural services
>Complains on stuff
>Profit

I have zero empathy/sympathy/care/regard for the whingers. You chose the lifestyle of living in an area with a low population density and expect to get infrastructure that of a high density area. Some cases some people cannot get any access to services unless it is satellite.

If internet is important to people, Do not move to a location where you cannot get it. Like if flooding were to be something that you cannot operate around, THEN DON'T MOVE TO AN AREA THAT FLOODS.

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#2154037 3-Jan-2019 17:55

I do think their should be 100% national cellular coverage, other than that the only real thing I think they can gripe about with RBI/Wireless is data caps. If they ditched those I don't think anyone would have a leg to stand on for griping.

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Linux

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#2154046 3-Jan-2019 18:09

Don't even bother reading the comments on the Stuff article! So much dumb

John

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#2154060 3-Jan-2019 18:58

Linux:
Don't even bother reading the comments on the Stuff article! So much dumb

John

Laughing at the sheer volume of dumbness can be a really good pick-me-up after a tough day.

quickymart

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#2154067 3-Jan-2019 19:16

It is pretty amusing eh.

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Lastman

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#2154074 3-Jan-2019 19:30

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109111365/halfabillion-dollars-invested-but-is-broadband-really-reaching-rural-people

I was surprised to see the low takeup of Wireless RBI - I thought it would have been higher than that. Yet I can imagine the same people who haven't connected who are stuck on a Conkin, but are more than happy to jump up and down about their "crap" broadband.

My household has been invited onto Vodafone's Wireless RBI several times by letter. Trouble is, I already get ADSL broadband at around 22 mbits/s so I see no reason to change. As I've stated several times in these discussions, the majority, think 80%, of rural people live close to towns and cities and will have some form of ADSL.

It appears to me a lot of the RBI money has simply allowed the Telecom companies to upgrade their general cell services to give them greater coverage and capacity for purposes outside of the RBI. It's been a good little number for them.

As to the other general opinions on this thread, many seem to have the idea that rural people are selfish lifestylers who all live in remote places and expect city services while the truth is that most work in or service industries such as farming, horticulture, forestry, fishing and heavy industries that produce much of the foreign currency that goes to balance our imports from places like China and provide much of the food and products cities consume.

I am happy with my broadband lot, at the moment, but should the need for fibre become a common household or business need, I will lobby for it, or the enabling of it, without any feeling that I am an undeserving freeloader.

blakamin

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#2154089 3-Jan-2019 20:14

Coil:

I have zero empathy/sympathy/care/regard for the whingers. You chose the lifestyle of living in an area with a low population density and expect to get infrastructure that of a high density area. Some cases some people cannot get any access to services unless it is satellite.

If internet is important to people, Do not move to a location where you cannot get it.

Except the Govt promised rural people broadband internet.

How do farmers "choose" to live rural? The pub owners in Gladstone? A whole town with crap phone coverage.

If they lived there before the "promises", they have every right to complain, because their taxes pay for it too.

Even tho I'm not in NZ, I moved rural, and bought a house because I was told I could get wireless.. I even told them the place could be marginal, but was told it would be no issue.

Planned install for settlement day...was then told it can't happen.. Took 2-3 months to sort out.

And how do you know some of your "whingers" weren't promised the same thing?

quickymart

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#2154097 3-Jan-2019 20:39

Lastman:

As to the other general opinions on this thread, many seem to have the idea that rural people are selfish lifestylers who all live in remote places and expect city services while the truth is that most work in or service industries such as farming, horticulture, forestry, fishing and heavy industries that produce much of the foreign currency that goes to balance our imports from places like China and provide much of the food and products cities consume.

I don't believe I said that rural people were selfish (I grew up in a rural area too with really bad DSL, if you could call it that), but the solution for a lot of rural people is wireless RBI where decent DSL/fibre is unavailable. I was just surprised the uptake isn't that high for those that can get it (and have crappy copper services).

hio77

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#2154128 3-Jan-2019 21:45

i have some pretty lengthy conversations with my locals that are on a conklin.

It all comes down to the whole, Wait you want me to pay more and have a data limit?! that's too expensive!

@GravityInternet has gotten to the stage where they are cheap enough that the locals will bite the bullet. They are headed over in droves from what i hear...

I personally questioned their unlimited service out of genuine concern for the way it was being sold (Implied to me that like 40GB is a massive data usage for unlimited). I walked away pretty happy with their explanation and have had quite decent feedback from actual users too. Overall those mentioned in the video all could get this service and be away laughing.

However, many others still come back to, omg it costs so much, Why wont you provide me with the same as town prices!

I offered NGA on application for a few of them, the ones that didn't turn their nose at a price for fibre straight away, turned their nose up at the fact that it wasn't powered so they couldn't plug an old phone into it (Me with a really red face at this point...)

There is light at the end of the tunnel though, Chorus are working on getting off ATM.

That kinda forces them to upgrade the conklins, Backhaul so far seems to be a mix of eDMR and running fibre.

My local conklin bunch are getting this done in may this year.

https://sp.chorus.co.nz/report/broadband-coverage Have a peak at this document.

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sbiddle

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#2154132 3-Jan-2019 22:00

blakamin:

How do farmers "choose" to live rural? The pub owners in Gladstone? A whole town with crap phone coverage.

If they lived there before the "promises", they have every right to complain, because their taxes pay for it too.

Interestingly the entire Gladstone area has VDSL2 as part of the RBI rollout. They're about 400m outside the VDSL2 coverage area as they're not in town itself so should still have good speeds.

Reading the story they talk about their EFTPOS dropping out and their mobile broadband - are they a classic example of somebody who Spark have moved off copper onto wireless and now trying to a run a business over that rather than staying on copper which should deliver them a rock solid solution?

Coil

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#2154250 4-Jan-2019 10:10

Lastman:

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109111365/halfabillion-dollars-invested-but-is-broadband-really-reaching-rural-people

I was surprised to see the low takeup of Wireless RBI - I thought it would have been higher than that. Yet I can imagine the same people who haven't connected who are stuck on a Conkin, but are more than happy to jump up and down about their "crap" broadband.

My household has been invited onto Vodafone's Wireless RBI several times by letter. Trouble is, I already get ADSL broadband at around 22 mbits/s so I see no reason to change. As I've stated several times in these discussions, the majority, think 80%, of rural people live close to towns and cities and will have some form of ADSL.

It appears to me a lot of the RBI money has simply allowed the Telecom companies to upgrade their general cell services to give them greater coverage and capacity for purposes outside of the RBI. It's been a good little number for them.

As to the other general opinions on this thread, many seem to have the idea that rural people are selfish lifestylers who all live in remote places and expect city services while the truth is that most work in or service industries such as farming, horticulture, forestry, fishing and heavy industries that produce much of the foreign currency that goes to balance our imports from places like China and provide much of the food and products cities consume.

I am happy with my broadband lot, at the moment, but should the need for fibre become a common household or business need, I will lobby for it, or the enabling of it, without any feeling that I am an undeserving freeloader.

Fortunately you have a good internet connection, 22Mb/s is great and will be sufficient for years to come. You may not be able to download a movie in under 2 minutes but heck, can do anything in an instant..

I would appreciate to see how your farm and others can justify expanding a fibre network that can cost 6-7 figures per single KM with your economic contributions. Just just based on internet usage are you going to pay back that investment? Tell me more about how you guys contribute sooooo much more for your worth than others...

If you also had an idea of how a network is built, you would probably not expect to get fibre to farms and say RBI is free lunch. The infrastructure being added to existing sites expanding range and frequencies is huge. You will never cover the entire country with any form of wireless network due to our geographical challenges so its only ever going to be best effort. So it swings back around to don't live somewhere where you are dependent on something and can't get it there.

blakamin:
Coil:

Except the Govt promised rural people broadband internet.

How do farmers "choose" to live rural? The pub owners in Gladstone? A whole town with crap phone coverage.

If they lived there before the "promises", they have every right to complain, because their taxes pay for it too.

Even tho I'm not in NZ, I moved rural, and bought a house because I was told I could get wireless.. I even told them the place could be marginal, but was told it would be no issue.

Planned install for settlement day...was then told it can't happen.. Took 2-3 months to sort out.

And how do you know some of your "whingers" weren't promised the same thing?

I would not use the word "promised" but more they said they promised to give it their best effort. If they promised to ALL rural people that they could get "Broadband" internet then they shot themselves in the foot severely.
If you take a look at the NZ website it very clearly states a few things (Even in the web URL..): https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/broadband-extended-to-99-8-of-the-population/ https://www.crowninfrastructure.govt.nz/blackspots/what/

Currently the percent of people who can get broadband internet in NZ of some kind is in the high 90's. The ones who actually chose to use these services when xDSL or Fibre is not available is lower than 50%.

Lastman

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#2154282 4-Jan-2019 12:31

Fortunately you have a good internet connection, 22Mb/s is great and will be sufficient for years to come. You may not be able to download a movie in under 2 minutes but heck, can do anything in an instant..

I would appreciate to see how your farm and others can justify expanding a fibre network that can cost 6-7 figures per single KM with your economic contributions. Just just based on internet usage are you going to pay back that investment? Tell me more about how you guys contribute sooooo much more for your worth than others...

As I said, I am happy with my current service. However, if fibre like capacities became an economic or social normalcy I would want it. You would probably struggle to justify the cost of fibre to an urban address. Almost all of the capacity is used for leisure consumption, but it is seen by the government as an investment in future growth and just an expectation of modern life.

I have a small horticultural property. About a million dollars of export product goes to Europe and Asia each year. Rural properties are often businesses and, as automation increases, are likely to need increased capacity for things like remote monitoring of processes.

If you also had an idea of how a network is built, you would probably not expect to get fibre to farms and say RBI is free lunch. The infrastructure being added to existing sites expanding range and frequencies is huge. You will never cover the entire country with any form of wireless network due to our geographical challenges so its only ever going to be best effort. So it swings back around to don't live somewhere where you are dependent on something and can't get it there.

Again, people on these threads tend to lump all non-urban properties as remote and therefore uneconomic to service. The distribution of properties away from cities and towns is closer to a normal distribution than a straight line. The majority of rural properties are close to urban areas with existing fibre nearby and a relatively high population density. Possibly not much more expensive to service than urban.

I believe those that are most remote areas have realistic expectations about what services they might expect, and in many cases, seek their own wireless solutions.

hio77

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#2154283 4-Jan-2019 12:33

Lastman:

Fortunately you have a good internet connection, 22Mb/s is great and will be sufficient for years to come. You may not be able to download a movie in under 2 minutes but heck, can do anything in an instant..

I would appreciate to see how your farm and others can justify expanding a fibre network that can cost 6-7 figures per single KM with your economic contributions. Just just based on internet usage are you going to pay back that investment? Tell me more about how you guys contribute sooooo much more for your worth than others...

As I said, I am happy with my current service. However, if fibre like capacities became an economic or social normalcy I would want it. You would probably struggle to justify the cost of fibre to an urban address. Almost all of the capacity is used for leisure consumption, but it is seen by the government as an investment in future growth and just an expectation of modern life.

I have a small horticultural property. About a million dollars of export product goes to Europe and Asia each year. Rural properties are often businesses and, as automation increases, are likely to need increased capacity for things like remote monitoring of processes.

i would say fibre doesn't even matter to you.

The reason for this is simple, you have stated your on ADSL. with 22mbit.

VDSL would be a very simple bump to gain a ton of upstream bandwidth here.

As a business seeing million dollar exports, NGA On application shouldn't be too hard to consider a payback time too.

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