Legal definition of minimum Broadband speed / service level in NZ?

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Legal definition of minimum Broadband speed / service level in NZ?

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482 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2080648 29-Aug-2018 09:35

BarTender:
spacedog:

michaelmurfy:

@spacedog - wireless P2P has come a long way likely since you've tried it. I've done many installs for businesses and it is very reliable.

Maybe start on one of their "cheap" plans - it is only $99 for an install. If you're concerned you could go for a UniFi network (will cost a bit) with failover back to ADSL if things get bad but I honestly don't think it would: https://www.gulfinternet.nz/cheapest-plan

As I said in my previous post, we have already gone down that path and done exactly what you have suggested.

The problems with all these fixed wireless solutions are they require line-of-sight, a high-quality connection at the other end, a willing participant/partner, and stable power. That's really difficult. We already had to build solar powered link repeater ontop of a hill just to get the fixed wireless that we currently use that I described before. And that fixed wireless is down again since I was writing updates last night.

I suggest you read this thread: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=229178

To me it sounds like whoever did your wireless / wireless broadband installation has done a poor job.

So as per many others who have posted in this thread. What you are looking to achieve is do-able. You just need to find a decent installer that knows what they are doing and install and align proper gear that it fit for purpose.

Or rent an office somewhere that does get good broadband and work from there.

Or pay for Satellite Broadband as that will give you better speeds, but it won't be as cheap.

It's not Chorus's / Spark / Vodafone or anyone other than your own responsibility to sort out your broadband if you choose to run your business in the middle of nowhere.

Can’t believe people are still telling me to move the farm. You can’t do that. Then there is no business left to speak of.

Satellite is not really any better than this 4/1 connection. Latency is 600ms and upstream maxes out at 1mbps (I’ve already researched this). And it will cost about $3000+. So again, I’d rathe subsidize copper repairs than go that route.

Don’t have much more to say since the majority (but not all) of the posters here think I should close down my busines and seem to think my hope of Chorus repairing the copper that has failed is an unreasonable expectation.

Thank you to those who have posted and shown at least a little bit of empathy and understanding.

BarTender

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#2080654 29-Aug-2018 09:48

spacedog: Can’t believe people are still telling me to move the farm. You can’t do that. Then there is no business left to speak of.
Satellite is not really any better than this 4/1 connection. Latency is 600ms and upstream maxes out at 1mbps (I’ve already researched this). And it will cost about $3000+. So again, I’d rathe subsidize copper repairs than go that route.
Don’t have much more to say since the majority (but not all) of the posters here think I should close down my busines and seem to think my hope of Chorus repairing the copper that has failed is an unreasonable expectation.
Thank you to those who have posted and shown at least a little bit of empathy and understanding.

I have a *LOT* of empathy for you as I live in Wellington and am VDSL connected with a 20Mbit down and 500-600Kb up (yes it is Kb not Mb) and that is *extremely* painful for uploads. Had Chorus come around do various port swaps and moved me onto 3 different free pairs to see if they could make it any difference and were unable to improve it.

I never said move the business, I said have you thought of renting an office in "town" or somewhere that gets better broadband. That is what a friend of mine who is a farmer has done as they have only poor mobile coverage at the gate and only outside their house if they stand on one corner and are connected to a Conklin on ADSL1.

Its worth trying to getting Spark Wireless Broadband if you are with Vodafone and having a proper installation like @CoffeeBaron of the Yagi if you can get any coverage with Spark vs Vodafone.

And I do have a read of the thread as I thought the Solar solution that he came up with is brilliant.

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#2080658 29-Aug-2018 09:59

spacedog:

Can’t believe people are still telling me to move the farm. You can’t do that. Then there is no business left to speak of.

Satellite is not really any better than this 4/1 connection. Latency is 600ms and upstream maxes out at 1mbps (I’ve already researched this). And it will cost about $3000+. So again, I’d rathe subsidize copper repairs than go that route.

Don’t have much more to say since the majority (but not all) of the posters here think I should close down my busines and seem to think my hope of Chorus repairing the copper that has failed is an unreasonable expectation.

Thank you to those who have posted and shown at least a little bit of empathy and understanding.

Your situation is not unique. Despite billions of dollars being spent by Chorus, the Government and private RSPs the simple reality is it is not possible to cover every address in NZ using fixed line or wireless technologies. Period. Until somebody changes the laws of physics that will not change.

It is not the responsibility of the government to provide you with broadband, however Chorus do need to be able to provide you with a fixed line phone if one was available at your location historically.

For many people and communities building their own solution IS the solution to their problems. The problem is they don't want to do anything about their problems as they're more than happy to just complain. A properly deployed fixed wireless offering is your solution, and I refuse to believe the $10k figure you're happily throwing around that you're saying you would happily spend won't fix your issues.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2080675 29-Aug-2018 10:12

spacedog:

That indicates a highly likely cable issue, your modem is heavily dropping down before gaining a sync on downstream.

Goes hand in hand with the fact that you have an FRE on the line though...

I don't particularly agree with it, but normally chorus go by user experience rather that statistics once they are in the field.

eg. you have a connection that's *stable* but that doesn't mean it's up to standard...

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antoniosk

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#2080693 29-Aug-2018 10:58

1/ What does FRE mean in this conversation?

2/ You had a working service, which was poor but relatively stable, which has now deteriorated dramatically. Chorus has announced no intention to repair or remedy, and there is no reasonable alternative in terms of cellular or fibre network

3/ There is a fixed wireless system in place, which is also performing poorly or not at all.

Tricky to say the least, esp. if you have your business there.

My feeling is you have to pursue a path on (2), before you chase on (3). Once upon a time it may have been unreasonable to expect quality dsl on a network built for analogue voice, but the industry/govt conversion of the NZ infrastructure to data first neatly shuts that path down. Chorus shouldn't be leaving you with a severely degraded service like this, but they don't have to improve it either. @chorus lurks on here, but I expect you need to go higher up in that org.

You should be prepared to go to whichever Minister is now in charge (Dr Megan Wood?) and ask for help. Non-responsiveness and silence from Chorus is'nt good enough, and certainly is the opposite of the current Governments open, caring and have a discussion message.

But it also sounds like (3) is the only alternative, and maybe you should talk to some of the suggested names in the thread. At least if you own your land, siting a decent fixed in place high gain antenna with power is possible, but you won't find anyone willing to take on it's management continued operation - they'll provide the link, the gear and everything else is yours.

I know it's not a helpful post, but rather than discuss in this forum of open views and unhelpful comments, its' best just to get on with talking to folks who are in a position to do something... if only you can spur some activity.

________

Antoniosk

Chorusnz

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#2080699 29-Aug-2018 11:10

@spacedog

Hi there, focusing on minimum broadband speed is the wrong way to look at performance over our copper network. Given all the things to consider such as, distance, equipment, quality of cable and network layout, we want to see our lines run at the maximum speed they can.

As mentioned in this thread, FRE's can be a pain. They are time consuming as we often have to work with a number of third parties such as local councils, traffic/road management crews, source specialised equipment/costs, and arrange replacement network or a redesign in some cases.

I can perhaps shed some light on the FRE situation for everyone contributing to this thread and look at the network capability for you. If you’d like, feel free to private message me your address.

^Mike

michaelmurfy

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#2080742 29-Aug-2018 12:17

@spacedog - did you see the post from @GulfInternet? https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=49&topicid=240245&page_no=2#2080600

I really recommend it for your business. Not only because it'll provide you with faster internet but I also know it'll be a far better service for you. No, I am not saying you're incorrect but more saying that things have really improved in the P2P wireless space so it is worth a go. Like I say, I've personally done many installs for business and find that it is far more reliable than your standard copper ADSL.

You've got options and good ones too - if you're wary then maybe keep your ADSL link up until you're confident that wireless is the way to go.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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Gulf Internet

#2080743 29-Aug-2018 12:21

Thanks michaelmurfy, Felix has a plan for spacedog I think we can get it sussed.
From Vrnda @ Gulf Internet

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wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2080744 29-Aug-2018 12:24

I echo what Michael has said - it really seems like you are refusing to look at a bunch of very viable options.

As has been said again and again in this thread, 802.11 wireless and also LTE have come an awful long way in the last few years. GulfInternet has offered you a free no obligation consultation - what more can you ask for?

Tinkerisk

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Uber Geek

#2080895 29-Aug-2018 16:32

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

- NET: FTTH, OPNsense, 10G backbone, GWN APs, ipPBX
- SRV: 12 RU HA server cluster, 0.1 PB storage on premise
- IoT: thread, zigbee, tasmota, BidCoS, LoRa, WX suite, IR
- 3D: two 3D printers, 3D scanner, CNC router, laser cutter

quickymart

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#2081134 29-Aug-2018 22:27

How much data do you use in a month? Sorry, I may have missed that from earlier in the thread (if it's been mentioned already).

spacedog

482 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2081177 30-Aug-2018 08:04

quickymart:

How much data do you use in a month? Sorry, I may have missed that from earlier in the thread (if it's been mentioned already).

A little hard to say - I manage and shape traffic based on what connection is working and available. When fixed wireless goes down I implement a ton of layer 7 firewall rules and block every possible software update service, streaming service, pretty much anything that isn't connecting to our order/logistics software, email, and google suite. If things are good, I open it up. It requires a lot of monitoring/maintenance and lost productivity for me when I should be focusing on my business rather than trying to keep the internet alive so people can do what they need to do. I'd say between 15gb-60gb monthly. Software updates and cloud-syncing take up the brunt of it.

spacedog

482 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2081178 30-Aug-2018 08:06

Chorusnz:

@spacedog

Hi there, focusing on minimum broadband speed is the wrong way to look at performance over our copper network. Given all the things to consider such as, distance, equipment, quality of cable and network layout, we want to see our lines run at the maximum speed they can.

As mentioned in this thread, FRE's can be a pain. They are time consuming as we often have to work with a number of third parties such as local councils, traffic/road management crews, source specialised equipment/costs, and arrange replacement network or a redesign in some cases.

I can perhaps shed some light on the FRE situation for everyone contributing to this thread and look at the network capability for you. If you’d like, feel free to private message me your address.

^Mike

@chorusnz - sent you a PM. Thank you for offering to help.

gabesmith

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#2083886 4-Sep-2018 15:51

spacedog:

Chorusnz:

@spacedog

Hi there, focusing on minimum broadband speed is the wrong way to look at performance over our copper network. Given all the things to consider such as, distance, equipment, quality of cable and network layout, we want to see our lines run at the maximum speed they can.

As mentioned in this thread, FRE's can be a pain. They are time consuming as we often have to work with a number of third parties such as local councils, traffic/road management crews, source specialised equipment/costs, and arrange replacement network or a redesign in some cases.

I can perhaps shed some light on the FRE situation for everyone contributing to this thread and look at the network capability for you. If you’d like, feel free to private message me your address.

^Mike

@chorusnz - sent you a PM. Thank you for offering to help.

My simple view is that under CGA you should not pay for a substandard service. It is the responsibility of the RSP (provider) to manage the resolution of the fault with the supplier (Chorus) in a timely and professional manner. You need to be clear on the difference between an unreliable service vs. the speed of the service. Unreliable is a fault.

Give your RSP a chance to fix the fault and then make it clear you will lodge a case with TDRS https://www.tdr.org.nz/ if you get no resolution to the fault.

Linux

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#2083938 4-Sep-2018 16:07

gabesmith:

spacedog:

Chorusnz:

@spacedog

Hi there, focusing on minimum broadband speed is the wrong way to look at performance over our copper network. Given all the things to consider such as, distance, equipment, quality of cable and network layout, we want to see our lines run at the maximum speed they can.

As mentioned in this thread, FRE's can be a pain. They are time consuming as we often have to work with a number of third parties such as local councils, traffic/road management crews, source specialised equipment/costs, and arrange replacement network or a redesign in some cases.

I can perhaps shed some light on the FRE situation for everyone contributing to this thread and look at the network capability for you. If you’d like, feel free to private message me your address.

^Mike

@chorusnz - sent you a PM. Thank you for offering to help.

My simple view is that under CGA you should not pay for a substandard service. It is the responsibility of the RSP (provider) to manage the resolution of the fault with the supplier (Chorus) in a timely and professional manner. You need to be clear on the difference between an unreliable service vs. the speed of the service. Unreliable is a fault.

Give your RSP a chance to fix the fault and then make it clear you will lodge a case with TDRS https://www.tdr.org.nz/ if you get no resolution to the fault.

@gabesmith The RSP will just disconnect you and then you connect to another RSP and the same thing will happen

John

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