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Topic # 240245 28-Aug-2018 19:19
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Is there a legal definition or standard for minimum speeds and acceptable service for broadband here in New Zealand? I'm really curious to know what Chorus/ISPs are legally required to uphold.

 

In the USA the FCC had previously established at 4mbps/1mbps, but back around 2015 they increased that definition to 25/3mbps and have upheld that.

 

I'm wondering whether there is any such definition here and, as such, if we have any legal remedy to the terrible broadband service we receive on Waiheke Island?

You can stop reading here if you like...if you are interested in the rest of my situation then read on.

 

A little backstory...
We have had to live in internet purgatory at our part-time residence and business on Waiheke for the last 16 years. However, the last 4 months it has taken a turn for the worse...

 

Our location is only served by an outdated and decrepit copper loop that is literally falling apart.  Previously we could get only ADSL speeds and synch rates of around 7mpbs/1mbps.  That's excruciatingly slow for business purposes and pretty unbearable even for domestic use.

 

Last April when the big storms came through there was some kind of damage and line surge.  One of our neighbors had all their ADSL filters get zapped. I replaced mine and my modem, but still had constant drops and couldn't synch consistently above 4mbps.  Tickets were lodged with Chorus through our phone/internet provider and Chorus put in some kind of temp fix and has basically abandoned us. 

It's been 4 1/2 months now. 

I keep pressuring our ISP, but they seem utterly impotent in their ability to achieve any result.  We literally have a ticket that is still open and no one can even give me an answer on what the Chorus notes actually mean. I raised this again with my account manager and here is the response I received:

 

This case was linked to an FRE that has been open since 19.04.2018. A Temp Fix was put in place on 07.05.2018, with no ETR on the permanent fix.

 

Currently, the customer’s line is up at 4,252/1,111kbps since 15.08.2018 09:23. Erroring is low level and non-service affecting.

 

As you can imagine a 4.2mb sync yields less than 4mbps actual speeds due to network overhead.  Frankly, I consider that to be pretty 'service affecting'. 

So essentially, there's a temp fix, we lost 50% of the terrible speed we already had and Chorus has no plans to fix it....I guess....ever???   

Each time we have a phone problem with our analog lines (about 2x per year), the Chorus tech says it's because the pair we are on has become corroded/failed so they have to try and find a new pair. They even said they are running out of pairs now.  At this point, I'm waiting for our phone lines to just die and lose connectivity all together.

This is frustrating beyond belief and has literally reduced me to tears on numerous occasions.  We can't get 4G coverage even with an antenna so using a 4G RBI modem is not an option. There are some wireless ISP options, but latency, packet loss and connection stability are far from 100% and I have a business that simply cannot function if we have no phones and no internet.

So that's why I'm asking this question about legal definitions and whether I have any recourse or if Chorus can just abandon us entirely...


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  Reply # 2080409 28-Aug-2018 19:41
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99.9% probability of providing to any End User a minimum downlink average throughout [sic] of 32kbps during any 15 minute period

 

EDIT: Link to more info if you're interested.


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  Reply # 2080411 28-Aug-2018 19:45
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If internet is soooo critical then move or move to Wireless

 

John





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  Reply # 2080412 28-Aug-2018 19:47
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I believe ADSL Broadband is still a 64kbit CIR (actually as above I am incorrect here! Good to know though) and you're getting well above that. Quite a large part of Waiheke also has UFB available and all cabinets are VDSL capable.

 

Now the question is have you got a master filter installed? Have you looked into other options like Wireless Broadband or broadband provided by a local ISP (see http://www.fulltilt.net.nz who have some pretty decent plans).

 

Edit: Wireless P2P from an ISP like Full Tilt is very reliable and often lower latency than your regular ADSL connection which as stated, is unstable for you. These ISP's use point to point wireless which many business also run from. I recommend joining one as it'll solve your issues.





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  Reply # 2080415 28-Aug-2018 19:57
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What exact other options have you looked at?

 

Spark looks to have 4G coverage for most of the island, so that could be worth checking.

 

@ChorusNZ may be able to give you more detail, but if the copper is old or corroded or has been melted by lightning in the storm, then a fix is far from trivial - it's a major infrastructure project to repair or replace.

 

No idea if these guys are any good, or if you're in their area, but another option to look at with a few different plans.


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  Reply # 2080418 28-Aug-2018 20:08
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Fixed wireless will deliver better speeds and latency than ADSL assuming you're not signing up with a poor provider.

 

 


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  Reply # 2080420 28-Aug-2018 20:13
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  Reply # 2080426 28-Aug-2018 20:24
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Those minimum standards are just for reporting what portion of the areas have broadband available. In the US its skewed even furthur to making it so one possible to connect property in a block will make the hole block count as served.

 

There is no obligation for companies to serve you in NZ, so if you keep nagging at them they will either say that its working fine or else decide that internet isn't available at that address and wait for you to try to change ISP and then find that they cant order it for you. Expecting them to fix copper is like expecting a steam train on its last run before decommisioning to be overhauled.

 

Wireless, pay for business fiber or move premisis is the options you have.





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  Reply # 2080432 28-Aug-2018 20:31
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FRE's are a serious pain point regardless of who you are. 

 

 

 

I'd look at wireless services if possible honestly..

 

Every morning i see these numbers,  it's not a great sight. Chorus are doing what they can to push things along but honestly.... there's just a ton of them.

 

 

 

The ones that seriously drive me mad is in fibre areas, where chorus end up putting in tons of man hours into repairing a network that could be migrated off ;)





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 2080449 28-Aug-2018 21:05
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Whereabouts on Waiheke is this (street name)?




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  Reply # 2080501 28-Aug-2018 23:11
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Linux:

 

If internet is soooo critical then move or move to Wireless

 

John

 

 

 

 

We're an agricultural business. I can't exactly move the farm.  Your comment seems to lack a degree of sensitivity and practicality. 

 

We have people that need to use email, make phone calls, and send and receive files. Even in agricultural businesses.


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  Reply # 2080503 28-Aug-2018 23:20
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If your needs have developed but the services available have not kept up then the premises are no longer suitable for you then. Plenty of other businesses relocate to places with the infrastructure they require, or pay to get it developed themselves. Have you considered a point to point wireless link to a location that you can get a UFB connection installed to?





Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 2080504 28-Aug-2018 23:24
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michaelmurfy:

 

I believe ADSL Broadband is still a 64kbit CIR (actually as above I am incorrect here! Good to know though) and you're getting well above that. Quite a large part of Waiheke also has UFB available and all cabinets are VDSL capable.

 

Now the question is have you got a master filter installed? Have you looked into other options like Wireless Broadband or broadband provided by a local ISP (see http://www.fulltilt.net.nz who have some pretty decent plans).

 

Edit: Wireless P2P from an ISP like Full Tilt is very reliable and often lower latency than your regular ADSL connection which as stated, is unstable for you. These ISP's use point to point wireless which many business also run from. I recommend joining one as it'll solve your issues.

 

 

I'm a former networking guy. Master filters installed long ago so no help there. Wiring on our end is pristine and high quality copper. Have never been able to get Chorus to advise what line cards are actually in the cabinet where our pairs terminate (I've asked if the card we are on is even ADSL2 - I've never seen modem choose a modulation other than ADSL_G.dmt.bis).  I know it goes to a Rocky Bay based cabinet.  Even if there are VDSL cards it wouldn't really help as the loop is somewhere around 3 to 3.5km.




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  Reply # 2080507 28-Aug-2018 23:25
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hio77:

 

FRE's are a serious pain point regardless of who you are. 

 

 

 

I'd look at wireless services if possible honestly..

 

Every morning i see these numbers,  it's not a great sight. Chorus are doing what they can to push things along but honestly.... there's just a ton of them.

 

 

 

The ones that seriously drive me mad is in fibre areas, where chorus end up putting in tons of man hours into repairing a network that could be migrated off ;)

 

 

Can you please explain what an FRE is?


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  Reply # 2080510 28-Aug-2018 23:31
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spacedog:

 

Can you please explain what an FRE is?

 

 

Fault related event, it's simply the term that coins an area fault.

 

 

 

Dates back to the landline days much like tech notes that are impossible to understand without experience or a decipher on hand! 





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  Reply # 2080512 28-Aug-2018 23:40
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spacedog:

 

I'm a former networking guy. Master filters installed long ago so no help there. Wiring on our end is pristine and high quality copper. Have never been able to get Chorus to advise what line cards are actually in the cabinet where our pairs terminate (I've asked if the card we are on is even ADSL2 - I've never seen modem choose a modulation other than ADSL_G.dmt.bis).  I know it goes to a Rocky Bay based cabinet.  Even if there are VDSL cards it wouldn't really help as the loop is somewhere around 3 to 3.5km.

 

 

Rocky bay, would we be talking around like the gordons road side of it?

 

Both the cabinets along there were upgraded to VDSL under RBI so it will be ADSL2+ compliant.

 

 

 

the one exception i could see is if your on a BUBA (ADSL1) profile. It's extremely rare these days for that to be done on purpose by chorus and as much as rare that providers don't actively atleast move you to EUBA.

 

I would suspect if there is a preexisting issue on the line, your modem takes a little while to sync after reboots before dropping down to G.DMT?

 

 

 

If you dm me details i'll find some time to dig about and check atleast neibouring lines and events i can see on my side.

 

 

 

Under RBI2 Omiha is planned to also get fibre, otherwise nothing else is planned at this stage.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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