Fibre break responsibility?

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#2032818 10-Jun-2018 09:06

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

Bung

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#2032987 10-Jun-2018 12:42

Hashtagtruth:
@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

I would much rather have it in plain sight unless it could be buried 450mm plus deep. Anything close to the surface is an accident waiting to happen. Who thinks of cable location when they are just weeding a garden?

Jase2985

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#2033029 10-Jun-2018 13:43

Hashtagtruth:

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

no its their network and you are not allowed to touch it

sparkz25

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#2033105 10-Jun-2018 15:28

Jase2985:

Hashtagtruth:

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

no its their network and you are not allowed to touch it

I would be asking why was it installed on the fence in the first place, This is a typical install that @ChorusNZ claims to be a acceptable install when in fact is actually just showing how incompetent and lazy their installers are and the shi++y workmanship that they get away with,

I would be getting on the phone to @ChorusNZ and tell them to follow their own guidelines on how the install should be done as outlined in the pictures i posted in this thread earlier.

I can tell you now from experience that if you the home owner were to run the duct for them it would have to be as per their requirements and at least 450mm deep and in green conduit or they wont connect it to their network. but if their contractor does it, well you get whats given to you as seen in many examples in this thread, theres even a facebook page about all of @ChorusNZ shi++y work.

Jase2985

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#2033119 10-Jun-2018 15:54

@sparkz25 while i appreciate that the 450mm exists for ducting installed by someone else ie 20/32mm pvc pipe, the fact still remains in their documents that states microduct (chorus' black or white stuff) can be buried at 200mm. (Trench depth should be 450mm below finished ground level for new developments (greenfields) but may be reduced to 200mm for existing premises (brownfield))

it also says that stapling/clipping it to a fence is also acceptable (https://sp.chorus.co.nz/sites/default/files/files/Install_Standards_surface_mounted.pdf)

so appreciate you are pissed but those methods are acceptable and complaining to chorus is just wasting their time because its very clear in their install documents.

i dont agree with either of those 2 methods am equally annoyed but that is what has been decided (still haven't found out by whom though)

the network should be built robust and to last, neither of those 2 methods are built to last.

toejam316

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#2033126 10-Jun-2018 15:56

sparkz25:

Jase2985:

Hashtagtruth:

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

no its their network and you are not allowed to touch it

I would be asking why was it installed on the fence in the first place, This is a typical install that @ChorusNZ claims to be a acceptable install when in fact is actually just showing how incompetent and lazy their installers are and the shi++y workmanship that they get away with,

Just wanted to pick on that specific line - it's not that the installers are lazy and incompetent, they're simply working to the standard they're paid for. With the remuneration available at the moment for these installations, the only way to turn a profit is to run things quick and dirty. It's a sad knock on from the contract Chorus has put in place with the lowest bidder service companies, and why so many like myself who're trained technicians in an industry that seems to have been critically understaffed, to the level that routinely foreigners immigrate to NZ to work in the industry, cannot and will not re enter the field.

Suffice to say that the most recent offer tabled to me prior to my exiting that part of the industry would've left me at the mercy of luck as to if I'd make more than minimum wage, based on the retainer offered and the hours required. Don't blame the workers, blame the ones setting the conditions.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

sparkz25

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#2033134 10-Jun-2018 16:29

Jase2985: @sparkz25 while i appreciate that the 450mm exists for ducting installed by someone else ie 20/32mm pvc pipe, the fact still remains in their documents that states microduct (chorus' black or white stuff) can be buried at 200mm. (Trench depth should be 450mm below finished ground level for new developments (greenfields) but may be reduced to 200mm for existing premises (brownfield)) it also says that stapling/clipping it to a fence is also acceptable (https://sp.chorus.co.nz/sites/default/files/files/Install_Standards_surface_mounted.pdf) so appreciate you are pissed but those methods are acceptable and complaining to chorus is just wasting their time because its very clear in their install documents. i dont agree with either of those 2 methods am equally annoyed but that is what has been decided (still haven't found out by whom though) the network should be built robust and to last, neither of those 2 methods are built to last.

that is pure lazyness! its a EFFN joke

too lazy to get a trencher in or reuse a old duct or thrust a new duct in.

some clown in the office had made that standard up

and yes your right they are not being made or installed to last!

if that was HV they would be in the the deepend for installing that cable.

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Hashtagtruth

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#2033136 10-Jun-2018 16:31

From what I heard there's not many thrusting machines in the country and they are expensive to hire.

sparkz25

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#2033137 10-Jun-2018 16:34

toejam316:

sparkz25:

Jase2985:

Hashtagtruth:

@ChorusNZ

If the microduct is attached to a fence and there's a grass verge running up alongside the driveway can the homeowner simply unpin the microduct from their fence and bury it in the ground themselves without having to bother chorus with it?

no its their network and you are not allowed to touch it

I would be asking why was it installed on the fence in the first place, This is a typical install that @ChorusNZ claims to be a acceptable install when in fact is actually just showing how incompetent and lazy their installers are and the shi++y workmanship that they get away with,

Just wanted to pick on that specific line - it's not that the installers are lazy and incompetent, they're simply working to the standard they're paid for. With the remuneration available at the moment for these installations, the only way to turn a profit is to run things quick and dirty. It's a sad knock on from the contract Chorus has put in place with the lowest bidder service companies, and why so many like myself who're trained technicians in an industry that seems to have been critically understaffed, to the level that routinely foreigners immigrate to NZ to work in the industry, cannot and will not re enter the field.

Suffice to say that the most recent offer tabled to me prior to my exiting that part of the industry would've left me at the mercy of luck as to if I'd make more than minimum wage, based on the retainer offered and the hours required. Don't blame the workers, blame the ones setting the conditions.

i have seen lazy installers in my time, and they are lazy!, Getting in the ceiling or going under the building is to hard for them so they will just clip the cable on the wall with out a care in the word.

They are just like sky installers, lazy and incompetent due to the fact they have had no training or very little training and cant be bothered doing a neat and tidy job.

Trained techs are getting pushed out because its cheaper to get a monkey. and the proffits end up in @ChorusNZ pockets

sparkz25

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#2033139 10-Jun-2018 16:37

Hashtagtruth:

From what I heard there's not many thrusting machines in the country and they are expensive to hire.

There are heaps of thrusting machines in the country, have a look in the yellow pages there are heaps of companies advertising

rugrat

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#2033144 10-Jun-2018 16:48

Hashtagtruth:
From what I heard there's not many thrusting machines in the country and they are expensive to hire.

When I got Telstra clear cable they did it properly. Dig hole two ends and drilled between them.

What a cop out, not enough equipment. You need more cranes or what ever, you bring them in.

Cost is the reason, someone decided to do it cheapest way can get away with. Surely government must be responsible for standards of Infrastructure and building codes at some point.

This isn’t just Chorus but all the LFC’s, so someone higher in chain has allowed it.

Very happy with how well fibre is running, just concerned about way installed, which is decided on what’s allowed higher up then person doing install.

sbiddle

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#2033164 10-Jun-2018 17:53

toejam316:

Just wanted to pick on that specific line - it's not that the installers are lazy and incompetent, they're simply working to the standard they're paid for. With the remuneration available at the moment for these installations, the only way to turn a profit is to run things quick and dirty. It's a sad knock on from the contract Chorus has put in place with the lowest bidder service companies, and why so many like myself who're trained technicians in an industry that seems to have been critically understaffed, to the level that routinely foreigners immigrate to NZ to work in the industry, cannot and will not re enter the field.

Suffice to say that the most recent offer tabled to me prior to my exiting that part of the industry would've left me at the mercy of luck as to if I'd make more than minimum wage, based on the retainer offered and the hours required. Don't blame the workers, blame the ones setting the conditions.

And ultimately that goes back to consumers demanding the cheapest possible price by choosing the cheapest provider, and an industry where we're now seeing Vodafone and Vocus telling us we're all overpaying for wholesale access and this needs to be cheaper.

While you can describe the issue as a Chorus one the reality is it's both Chorus and the LFCs. Consumers would baulk at paying $1500 - $3000 for their install if billed, yet this cost has to be absorbed which is turn puts downward pressure on installs.

Taubin

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#2033165 10-Jun-2018 17:54

One of the biggest issues I have with the fence installs (and similar) is when they break down in 5, 10, 15 years, Chorus is just going to throw their hands up, say it's too hard to fix, and expect a large amount of money to fix it at that point. Who will hold the bill for it at that point? The owner of the cables (Chorus), the owner of the fence (not necessarily the owner of the home the fibre is going to), the owner of the home the fibre is going to, or the government (tax payers)? I have a strong feeling Chorus is going to say it's not their fault, they had nothing to do with it, that's how it was done at the time and they want nothing to do with it. This is just going to drop us back into an even worse space, than if it was just done properly in the first place. Especially for people that are renting, the landlords aren't going to care if the tenants don't have fibre.

It's going to be leaking homes 2.0

ZL2TOY/ZL1DMP

sbiddle

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#2033210 10-Jun-2018 18:47

Taubin:

One of the biggest issues I have with the fence installs (and similar) is when they break down in 5, 10, 15 years, Chorus is just going to throw their hands up, say it's too hard to fix, and expect a large amount of money to fix it at that point. Who will hold the bill for it at that point? The owner of the cables (Chorus), the owner of the fence (not necessarily the owner of the home the fibre is going to), the owner of the home the fibre is going to, or the government (tax payers)? I have a strong feeling Chorus is going to say it's not their fault, they had nothing to do with it, that's how it was done at the time and they want nothing to do with it. This is just going to drop us back into an even worse space, than if it was just done properly in the first place. Especially for people that are renting, the landlords aren't going to care if the tenants don't have fibre.

It's going to be leaking homes 2.0

Fence line installs have been used for HFC installs in Wellington, Christchurch and Kapiti for over 20 years now with no major issues. Yes most of the installs are coax run inside conduit (simply because the coax isn't ruggedised) but the fact this process hasn't resulted in major issues.

quickymart

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#2033215 10-Jun-2018 18:56

I think part of the issue is people ordering fibre expect everything to be fully trenched underground (even if their existing copper connection is aerial) and cost $0 - but an overhead to underground transfer can be quite expensive.

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