Legal definition of minimum Broadband speed / service level in NZ?

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gabesmith

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#2083943 4-Sep-2018 16:23

Linux:
gabesmith:

spacedog:

Chorusnz:

@spacedog

Hi there, focusing on minimum broadband speed is the wrong way to look at performance over our copper network. Given all the things to consider such as, distance, equipment, quality of cable and network layout, we want to see our lines run at the maximum speed they can.

As mentioned in this thread, FRE's can be a pain. They are time consuming as we often have to work with a number of third parties such as local councils, traffic/road management crews, source specialised equipment/costs, and arrange replacement network or a redesign in some cases.

I can perhaps shed some light on the FRE situation for everyone contributing to this thread and look at the network capability for you. If you’d like, feel free to private message me your address.

^Mike

@chorusnz - sent you a PM. Thank you for offering to help.

My simple view is that under CGA you should not pay for a substandard service. It is the responsibility of the RSP (provider) to manage the resolution of the fault with the supplier (Chorus) in a timely and professional manner. You need to be clear on the difference between an unreliable service vs. the speed of the service. Unreliable is a fault.

Give your RSP a chance to fix the fault and then make it clear you will lodge a case with TDRS https://www.tdr.org.nz/ if you get no resolution to the fault.

@gabesmith The RSP will just disconnect you and then you connect to another RSP and the same thing will happen

John

Hi John when I say you shouldn't have to pay for a substandard service, I don't mean just stop paying, I mean you should be entitled to the service being fixed and refunded for the service not delivered period.

Aredwood

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#2083963 4-Sep-2018 17:35

Pretty sure that there is no service level agreement for residential copper based internet.

And has it been confirmed that these drops are actual Layer 2 ADSL drops? And not upstream congestion or backhaul congestion?

Also I don't think that there is any requirement for Chorus to even offer ADSL. They could just quietly edit their database to say that ADSL is not available to the property. The OP would try to change ISPs, then find that No ISP can connect them

To be fair to Chorus. They are forced by stupid laws to continue providing copper connections to people who live in UFB areas. And who probably also have excellent cellphone reception as well. The Chorus annual report says that they are spending $10 Million per year on such costs.

That money would make a huge difference in areas where copper is the only available connection.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#2083982 4-Sep-2018 18:47

Aredwood: Pretty sure that there is no service level agreement for residential copper based internet.

And has it been confirmed that these drops are actual Layer 2 ADSL drops? And not upstream congestion or backhaul congestion?

Also I don't think that there is any requirement for Chorus to even offer ADSL. They could just quietly edit their database to say that ADSL is not available to the property. The OP would try to change ISPs, then find that No ISP can connect them

To be fair to Chorus. They are forced by stupid laws to continue providing copper connections to people who live in UFB areas. And who probably also have excellent cellphone reception as well. The Chorus annual report says that they are spending $10 Million per year on such costs.

That money would make a huge difference in areas where copper is the only available connection.

you mean like most buba instances that are now listed as Copper voice only ;)

Based on the cabinet the OP is on, it's highly unlikely to be Congestion on the chorus network. They publicly report on congestion levels etc and operate on a "congestion free policy" (excluding ATM linked equipment lol.)

sure could be congestion on the RSP side, however if sounds like a business connection given the OP has a account manager, so i'd expect that would be unlikely too.

It's a fair bit of copper along the way, the one bit i do question is how the businesses around get their connectivity as there are very few DSL connections there.

Typology does suck in the OP's case.

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quickymart

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#2084101 4-Sep-2018 22:30

gabesmith: Hi John when I say you shouldn't have to pay for a substandard service, I don't mean just stop paying, I mean you should be entitled to the service being fixed and refunded for the service not delivered period.

No SLA for speed of a copper broadband service - it's "best effort".

gabesmith

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#2084160 5-Sep-2018 08:25

quickymart:
gabesmith: Hi John when I say you shouldn't have to pay for a substandard service, I don't mean just stop paying, I mean you should be entitled to the service being fixed and refunded for the service not delivered period.

No SLA for speed of a copper broadband service - it's "best effort".

Yeah agree no guarantee on min speed. But in terms of reliability there are some minimums in terms of DSL disconnects per day. If you can prove the DSL line is unreliable excluding your house cabling then this is classed as a fault which must be fixed. Remember when you have an unreliable line, DLM will kick in and reduce your connection speed right down in an attempt to provide a reliable DSL service. The key to solving these problems is very detailed metrics - pingdom, router logs and determination. Isps and chorus can often blame other things without evidence so you need to have all theories proved with data to make diagnostic progress. Good luck.

trig42

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#2084164 5-Sep-2018 08:46

To the OP - wonder if Julian Robertson will pay for upgraded services out your way since he is planning to build a 40 guest lodge at Kauaroa Bay

spacedog

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#2084165 5-Sep-2018 08:51

trig42:

To the OP - wonder if Julian Robertson will pay for upgraded services out your way since he is planning to build a 40 guest lodge at Kauaroa Bay

So, serious question. How exactly does someone pay for upgraded services? I think I asked this question earlier in this thread and I have been trying to find out for a long time now how a group of users/customers could even begin to embark on a project to get the network upgraded.

Knowing all of our neighbors and the increasing building and development on this part of Waiheke it's entirely possible I could get enough people interested and onboard to 'crowdfund' an upgrade. But is that even possible and, if so, where does one start and who does one talk to?

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DarkShadow

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#2084193 5-Sep-2018 09:45

spacedog:

trig42:

To the OP - wonder if Julian Robertson will pay for upgraded services out your way since he is planning to build a 40 guest lodge at Kauaroa Bay

So, serious question. How exactly does someone pay for upgraded services? I think I asked this question earlier in this thread and I have been trying to find out for a long time now how a group of users/customers could even begin to embark on a project to get the network upgraded.

Knowing all of our neighbors and the increasing building and development on this part of Waiheke it's entirely possible I could get enough people interested and onboard to 'crowdfund' an upgrade. But is that even possible and, if so, where does one start and who does one talk to?

@ChorusNZ have upgraded broadband in certain areas when a group of neighbours agree to pay for it. You may also want to contact the various local ISPs mentioned in this thread and see what they can do.

hio77

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#2084201 5-Sep-2018 10:10

spacedog:

trig42:

To the OP - wonder if Julian Robertson will pay for upgraded services out your way since he is planning to build a 40 guest lodge at Kauaroa Bay

So, serious question. How exactly does someone pay for upgraded services? I think I asked this question earlier in this thread and I have been trying to find out for a long time now how a group of users/customers could even begin to embark on a project to get the network upgraded.

Knowing all of our neighbors and the increasing building and development on this part of Waiheke it's entirely possible I could get enough people interested and onboard to 'crowdfund' an upgrade. But is that even possible and, if so, where does one start and who does one talk to?

Hoping by end of this week i have a initial quote for you from chorus.

Croudfunding full area upgrades is a bit of an oddball one, you kinda need connections.

Chorus don't offer it up like they do for subdivisions :/

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BarTender

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#2084261 5-Sep-2018 11:45

hio77:

spacedog:

trig42:

To the OP - wonder if Julian Robertson will pay for upgraded services out your way since he is planning to build a 40 guest lodge at Kauaroa Bay

So, serious question. How exactly does someone pay for upgraded services? I think I asked this question earlier in this thread and I have been trying to find out for a long time now how a group of users/customers could even begin to embark on a project to get the network upgraded.

Knowing all of our neighbors and the increasing building and development on this part of Waiheke it's entirely possible I could get enough people interested and onboard to 'crowdfund' an upgrade. But is that even possible and, if so, where does one start and who does one talk to?

Hoping by end of this week i have a initial quote for you from chorus.

Croudfunding full area upgrades is a bit of an oddball one, you kinda need connections.

Chorus don't offer it up like they do for subdivisions :/

I remember getting quotes from Chorus on Crowd Funding to upgrade some Conklins in the past. Normally the number was around $100k, and if the community was happy to pay for that then Chorus were happy to do the work. Oddly enough every time that figure was quoted everyone went very quiet about how important the upgrade REALLY was to them.

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