How is NGN FTTN getting on?

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#394562 21-Oct-2010 21:47

aionwannabe: who you with man i get 100GB for $185 and phone.
Keep in mind prices will also go down with Pacific Fiber's project (hopefully)[off topic].
[on topic] even with FTTN isps without their own cards still need to pay for the adsl2+ access right?

ya well .au is getting 1tb for $110, so we really do have some catching up to do.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/235950,akamai-finds-aussie-broadband-speeds-improve.aspx

Akamai's saying we're a bit quicker than au, but is there any surprise about that when you consider how much more traffic .au is moving?!

Zeon

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#394589 21-Oct-2010 23:11

If the handover and backhaul limits with Telecom wholesale were a lot higher, there would be a lot more scope to raise data caps. Especially for national traffic.

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DonGould

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#394682 22-Oct-2010 10:10

Zeon: If the handover and backhaul limits with Telecom wholesale were a lot higher, there would be a lot more scope to raise data caps. Especially for national traffic.

What are those limits?

Are they in the public domain?

cyril7

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#394683 22-Oct-2010 10:14

What are those limits?

96kb/s as opposed to current ADSL2+ products at 48kb/s (up from previous 32kb/s)

http://www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/wvs

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Zeon

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#394684 22-Oct-2010 10:17

DonGould:
Zeon: If the handover and backhaul limits with Telecom wholesale were a lot higher, there would be a lot more scope to raise data caps. Especially for national traffic.

What are those limits?

Are they in the public domain?

People of the forums whom work for the ISPs often talk about them. E.g. Callumb who works for Xnet posted on GPfroums:

"Well, its a bit better than ADSL2+ - the main plan we offer on it is 30meg down / 6meg up - and unlike xDSL - Telecom is not artificially rate limiting the backhaul to 32kbps per subscriber (which is whats making NZ DSL so sh!t at the mo - infact there isnt even an option to purchase more bandwidth on your handoff link - which is think is pretty ****ed - another reason why im looking forward to xtra starting to use UBA - it will make it a for once level playing field - ****s.)"

Part of the problem is that ATM is used for the backhaul which is becoming quickly dated with ethernet taking over. Telecom Wholesale now have an "enhanced" UBA which is all ethernet and has higher backhaul per subscriber and some ISPs are offering free national using this. Also VDSL2 will have all ethernet backhaul and a whopping 96kbps allocated per subscribed user

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kyhwana2

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#394687 22-Oct-2010 10:20

Zeon:
Part of the problem is that ATM is used for the backhaul which is becoming quickly dated with ethernet taking over. Telecom Wholesale now have an "enhanced" UBA which is all ethernet and has higher backhaul per subscriber and some ISPs are offering free national using this. Also VDSL2 will have all ethernet backhaul and a whopping 96kbps allocated per subscribed user

Which ISPs are offering free national?

TinyTim

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#394691 22-Oct-2010 10:26

DonGould:
bellyfrog: I'm not really sure what the point of this huge fibre rollout is when there's such a limitation on international bandwidth in this country anyway.

I mean sure you will be able to download at 5mb/s but does that help when you will use all your monthly allowance in one day? :D

Well that's sort of the point of the two international cable projects that are being worked on at present isn't it.

Murray Milner, the chairman of Crown Fibre Holdings, has the view that even the new cables aren't going to solve the international bandwidth problem - not when everyone's got 100 Mbit/s connectivity. His solution is heavy local caching. He also says this is the way to get rid of the data cap problem.

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Zeon

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#394692 22-Oct-2010 10:31

TinyTim:
DonGould:
bellyfrog: I'm not really sure what the point of this huge fibre rollout is when there's such a limitation on international bandwidth in this country anyway.

I mean sure you will be able to download at 5mb/s but does that help when you will use all your monthly allowance in one day? :D

Well that's sort of the point of the two international cable projects that are being worked on at present isn't it.

Murray Milner, the chairman of Crown Fibre Holdings, has the view that even the new cables aren't going to solve the international bandwidth problem - not when everyone's got 100 Mbit/s connectivity. His solution is heavy local caching. He also says this is the way to get rid of the data cap problem.

Completely agree with him there. Put in as much caching gear as you can (maybe even a ISP independent caching company that attaches to the NZIX peering points) and more local content like Isky is the way to go.

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cyril7

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#394700 22-Oct-2010 10:51

and more local content like Isky is the way to go.

and hopefully part of an uncapped portion if datacaps remain.

Cyril

Beccara

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#394718 22-Oct-2010 11:50

Zeon:
TinyTim:
DonGould:
bellyfrog: I'm not really sure what the point of this huge fibre rollout is when there's such a limitation on international bandwidth in this country anyway.

I mean sure you will be able to download at 5mb/s but does that help when you will use all your monthly allowance in one day? :D

Well that's sort of the point of the two international cable projects that are being worked on at present isn't it.

Murray Milner, the chairman of Crown Fibre Holdings, has the view that even the new cables aren't going to solve the international bandwidth problem - not when everyone's got 100 Mbit/s connectivity. His solution is heavy local caching. He also says this is the way to get rid of the data cap problem.

Completely agree with him there. Put in as much caching gear as you can (maybe even a ISP independent caching company that attaches to the NZIX peering points) and more local content like Isky is the way to go.

What is the problem with international data apart from cost?

SCC has 1.2 Terrabit/sec right now with upgrades to 9.68 Terrabit/sec which is 3mbit for every single person or 6.2mbit for every dwelling in NZ right now. It's expected that within 5 years they can upgrade from 40gbit to 100gbit which would bring it upto 24.s Terrabit/sec which is 6mbit for every person or 15mbit for every person in the country.

And thats with SCC alone, another cable with some modest caching/local CDN and we're fine, Everyone in the country isn't going to be online pushing 100mbit at the same time out of the country

Zeon

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#394722 22-Oct-2010 12:00

Beccara:
Zeon:
TinyTim:
DonGould:
bellyfrog: I'm not really sure what the point of this huge fibre rollout is when there's such a limitation on international bandwidth in this country anyway.

I mean sure you will be able to download at 5mb/s but does that help when you will use all your monthly allowance in one day? :D

Well that's sort of the point of the two international cable projects that are being worked on at present isn't it.

Murray Milner, the chairman of Crown Fibre Holdings, has the view that even the new cables aren't going to solve the international bandwidth problem - not when everyone's got 100 Mbit/s connectivity. His solution is heavy local caching. He also says this is the way to get rid of the data cap problem.

Completely agree with him there. Put in as much caching gear as you can (maybe even a ISP independent caching company that attaches to the NZIX peering points) and more local content like Isky is the way to go.

What is the problem with international data apart from cost?

SCC has 1.2 Terrabit/sec right now with upgrades to 9.68 Terrabit/sec which is 3mbit for every single person or 6.2mbit for every dwelling in NZ right now. It's expected that within 5 years they can upgrade from 40gbit to 100gbit which would bring it upto 24.s Terrabit/sec which is 6mbit for every person or 15mbit for every person in the country.

And thats with SCC alone, another cable with some modest caching/local CDN and we're fine, Everyone in the country isn't going to be online pushing 100mbit at the same time out of the country

The technical capacity of the SXC versus the cost of actually using it are 2 very different things. Remember that the Souther Cross only gets you to the landing stations in Aussie and the US. You still need to get from there to your destination which could be in Europe or Asia. Also, because of the length of contracts that the upstream providers need to enter into coupled with the fast changing nature of internet access costs are pushed up for the ISPs

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Beccara

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#394726 22-Oct-2010 12:07

So its just price then? Seems to me its a business problem rather than a technical one and when even small ISP's are scrambling around to buy 100-200mbit+ of transit the price will have to drop

TinyTim

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#394728 22-Oct-2010 12:10

And remember: NZ isn't the only country using the capacity on the cables (Australia, anyone?), and residential Internet isn't the only service using its capacity. (I would hazard a guess and say it's a small proportion.)

Murray Milner's view is that there is a capacity problem (depending, of course, on what the take-up and usage of this ultra fast broadband is).

DonGould

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#394730 22-Oct-2010 12:13

Zeon:
The technical capacity of the SXC versus the cost of actually using it are 2 very different things. Remember that the Souther Cross only gets you to the landing stations in Aussie and the US. You still need to get from there to your destination which could be in Europe or Asia. Also, because of the length of contracts that the upstream providers need to enter into coupled with the fast changing nature of internet access costs are pushed up for the ISPs

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1511009

There's so much capaicty now that it's just not funny.

$60m and you can buy yourself a nice link into the PPC1.

As for Zeon's comments.... pffft, au get 1TB of data for $110.

From what I can see, the comments about TW is the clear issue:

WVS Handovers dimensioned at 96kbps per end-user compared to 45kbps for our other best efforts broadband products

webwat

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#394910 22-Oct-2010 22:43

I doubt you would be buying the data usage as 1TB or whatever, its usually sold as bandwidth/speed instead of throughput. If you do setup a connection and router to support only 1Mbps from a single machine with an optimised TCP "receive window" then you could theoretically download 2.5TB i8n a month from a similarly optimised USA server, and it might cost over $100 or $200 with a service level agreement for jitter or CIR. Aggregating 1000s of users and paying Telecom to deliver the traffic is a different story. Will be good to see some new business models come from competition on both the local loop and international links.

Time to find a new industry!

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