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Topic # 150473 24-Jul-2014 03:24
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Story in stuff.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10294245/Telecom-lays-complaint-over-copper-network

250 kpbs sounds not much faster then the old dial up days. I can get about 12 Mbps on national data at present.

Guessing it's average through put per user, So how much difference would it make?

Could stuff up streaming tv services, if to many people try to watch at once, if is the case.

In christchurch if people go to fibre, it's a lost customer to Chorus, as enable has contract here, guessing they're trying to make people change products. If mine slows to dial up, I'll ditch it altogether and just go to mobile, just have to go without youtube etc.

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  Reply # 1094624 24-Jul-2014 05:24
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Um, no.

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  Reply # 1094632 24-Jul-2014 07:14
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Simple answer, no.

You're completely misunderstanding what they're doing.

The resulting changes will make absolutely no difference at all based on current usage. People on some ATM based connections will actually find their service will improve.



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  Reply # 1094652 24-Jul-2014 08:47
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At Op, I completely agree this it's how Stuff make it sound! 
Typical nz media tabloid reporting.

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  Reply # 1094653 24-Jul-2014 08:48
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tehgerbil: At Op, I completely agree this it's how Stuff make it sound! 
Typical nz media tabloid reporting.


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  Reply # 1094669 24-Jul-2014 09:08
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@sbiddle, or someone else.

How about actually explaining what they're doing then, if you have the time.

It's all very well telling people that's not how it works, but it would be nice for once to actually, at least partially, understand how it really works.

Without facts, the unwashed are left to believe whatever the media tell them.





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  Reply # 1094687 24-Jul-2014 09:36
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sbiddle: Simple answer, no.

You're completely misunderstanding what they're doing.

The resulting changes will make absolutely no difference at all based on current usage. People on some ATM based connections will actually find their service will improve.




Complex answer is yes though.

Chorus don't plan to invest anymore in the "regulated" copper network, so eventually it will slow down as traffic levels grow.

Unless ISP's move customers to their "new" network, at a higher cost.



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  Reply # 1094693 24-Jul-2014 09:50
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Chorus could run foul of the Commerce Commission.




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  Reply # 1094696 24-Jul-2014 09:52
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They're not going to slow it down, they're proposing to cap it at slightly above what they claim is the existing average speeds. This is the 'priority lanes' that's been touted for a little while. If you want faster throughput so you can stream Netflix etc., pay for it.

It'd be very interesting to see the 'logic' they've put into arriving at their figure.

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  Reply # 1094706 24-Jul-2014 10:16
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Perfectly smart move for Chorus. They should cap it at a lesser speed though to encourage faster uptake of the non-regulated service?





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  Reply # 1094721 24-Jul-2014 10:28
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In simple terms, chorus has a guaranteed minimum speed avaliable between your house and your isp's office for transporting your internet data.

CIR = Committed Information Rate PIR = Peak information rate (usually the same as your line speed)

The isp orders a plan with a CIR - that is if everyone in new zealand who used DSL provided by chorus at the exact same time at full speed, you would at least be able to get the CIR speed. Its between 32kbits / 48 / ?? / ?? kbits depending what plan the isp orders.
If the number of broadband connections in a town multiplied by 32kbits becomes more than the backhaul capacity they have, chorus will be obligated to upgrade the capacity.

They are proposing to put a 250kbps CIR on a few of the existing popular broadband products.

Now this doesnt mean you will be slowed down - it just means that you will be guaranteed that amount of speed at any time, and any spare capacity will continue to allow you to achieve a much higher PIR.
So you can still run speedtests and download at very high speed.

In the near future, they want to introduce some premium services where the CIR is set higher.

Here is a picture to show you





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  Reply # 1094722 24-Jul-2014 10:29
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sbiddle: Simple answer, no.

You're completely misunderstanding what they're doing.

The resulting changes will make absolutely no difference at all based on current usage. People on some ATM based connections will actually find their service will improve.




based on current average usage right now.  And since average usage is growing at, what, 50% per year, it will take only a few months for usage to go past the current averages and congestion to hit.

So yes, technically they aren't slowing things down,  they just aren't allowing them to grow anymore. and since the natural course  of internet traffic is to grow, the net effect will be that everyone's connections will slow down within a shortish period of time unless they move to the new products which conveniently happen to be the same price as the old products were before the comcom regulated the price downwards.



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  Reply # 1094730 24-Jul-2014 10:39
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Are the ComCom really that stupid?





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  Reply # 1094738 24-Jul-2014 10:45
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Thanks Ray. That's a really good explanation.

However I still have concerns.
I'm already on a congested connection, so from what I see (assuming it applies to my location), some people can pay for a better connection, which WILL negativity affect the speeds of others at peak times.




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  Reply # 1094742 24-Jul-2014 10:48
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Zeon: Are the ComCom really that stupid?


Yes.

If they were smart they would have ensured their regulated product offering was suitable for today's internet. Right now it's not.

A regulated product that says average throughput must meet the 32kbps minimum is a joke - Chorus themselves are showing that the current average throughput for UBA is 75kbps and for EUBA that it's 200kbps. It's about time the Commerce Commission set in place a regulated product that's designed for the internet of today, not the internet of 2004. The Commerce Commission also need to base any pricing for UBA on those figures rather than simply looking at the cost of the port cost component.





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  Reply # 1094748 24-Jul-2014 10:53
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andrewNZ: Thanks Ray. That's a really good explanation.

However I still have concerns.
I'm already on a congested connection, so from what I see (assuming it applies to my location), some people can pay for a better connection, which WILL negativity affect the speeds of others at peak times.



Boost users won't affect the performance of existing users on the regulated offering.

If you're on a congested connection now it indicates you're on UBA (rather than EUBA) so if anything your connection could improve as handover dimensioning increases from 75kbps to 150kbps. The exception will be if you're on a Conklin, in which case you're just doomed to have bad internet.






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