UFB and MDU Questions

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gettingimpatient

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Wannabe Geek

Topic # 160630 14-Jan-2015 09:13

Hi all,
I am currently working on getting UFB installed in the apartment I'm renting in Te Aro, Wellington.
At this point, I am in the consents phase and I have a few questions.

Firstly, only one ISP (MyRepublic) shows UFB as being available at my address. Enquiring further, I came to find out that the MDU I'm living in is considered a "pre-fibred premise". So I have a couple of questions about this:
1. Why do all the other ISP address checkers tell me that UFB is unavailable? and;
2. What is Chorus' definition of "pre-fibred"?

Second, what are the rules regarding UFB install subsidies and MDUs?
I read something about MDUs attracting a lesser install cost if they're three storeys or under / the dwelling is on the third storey or lower. This particular MDU is four storeys high, with apartments on the ground, 2nd and 3rd floors (32 units in total) and my apartment being on the third floor.
Does this necessarily mean that an install could become prohibitively expensive, even if the install is trivial?

Thanks

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Reply # 1213617 14-Jan-2015 10:33

Have you tried ringing other ISPs? Online address checkers aren't always accurate...

Creator of Tallowmere.

InstallerUFB

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Reply # 1213629 14-Jan-2015 10:41

'Pre-Fibred' normaly would indicate that the MDU build out has already been done in this building

but in saying that no install is trivial especialy to cable up a 4 storey building for fibre access to each unit if it hasnt been done yet

cyril7

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Reply # 1213640 14-Jan-2015 10:48

I thought the rules had changed and if an existing cat5/6 run from the basement/comms closet to apartment existed then the ONT could be sited in the basement/comms closet.

Or am I mistaken.

Cyril

wired

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Reply # 1214631 14-Jan-2015 11:19

There are new provisions that allow for the possibility but it opens up new problems.

For example, if the end customer wants an enhanced service level. The UFB project is about providing fibre to the premises. The philosophy of the service being provided to the premises doesn't change if the copper building riser is used - the demarcation point is the outlet inside the premises and not at the ONT. So the building riser cable performance is included within the LFC's SLA so how does the LFC get the building owner to buy into meeting the SLA (e.g. repair times) and pay penalties for not meeting the SLA if it comes to that. A difficult conversation to resolve.

Add to that questions about who pays for the power to the ONT etc.

So using the copper cabling is not as attractive as it first sounded.

raytaylor

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Reply # 1215042 14-Jan-2015 19:15

I say just make it like the TV amplifier located in ones attic.

The ONT surely would have a voltage range they can operate at? 12-24v maybe?
If thats the case, use a gigabit power over ethernet injector at the premesis socket that sends 24v down the ethernet cable on all 4 pairs to the basement.
In the basement, a POE extractor can take the power from the ethernet cable and feed it into the power input of the ONT
That way, each premises is responsible for powering their own ONT.

Of course the limiting factor is the 90m ethernet cable run between them.

Managment issues would need to be dealt with by the tennant who would need to obtain keys for the chorus tech to access the basement - just like now when you fill in the form and provide the phone numbers, avaliability hours etc for the chorus tech.

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
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Chorusnz

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Reply # 1215091 14-Jan-2015 20:33

4 people support this post

You have posed three questions which I will deal with in turn;

Q1. Why does only one ISP (MyRepublic) shows UFB as being available at your address, the rest saying it is not available?

Answer: Most (not all) ISP link their fibre availability tools to the “ready for service” date in our UFB rollout data. The address you are referring to in Te Aro is not scheduled to have the UFB communal street cabling completed for another couple of year at least. Some ISPs go further and are also looking up the “fibre-ready premises” data that we provide to ISPs which indicates that legacy Chorus fibre is already in a CBD building.

Q2. What is Chorus' definition of "pre-fibred"?

Answer: In some parts of CBD Auckland and Wellington there are buildings that are still some time away from having UFB fibre laid in the street outside. But many (not all) have some legacy fibre previously installed into the building and corporate & business customers have got (mostly point-to-point) fibre services in operation. GPON-based UFB services can be delivered over this fibre to tenants in these buildings.

In your particular case your apartment block was formerly a commercial building and had legacy fibre in the basement. The commercial building was converted to a residential MDU. Rather than having to wait another couple of years to get “UFB fibre” down the street, we can use the existing legacy fibre to deliver a GPON service to residents in your building.

Q3. What are the rules regarding UFB install subsidies and MDUs?

Answer: Well, it depends . . . .

As part of the rollout of UFB, once we have received an order for service, Chorus will arrange to get fibre from the street to each of the tenanted spaces in an MDU (apartment, office or shop space). We have a budget to work to and in some cases building owners do not have to contribute to the fit out, while in others instances they do.

Factors that influence the cost of internal fibre fit out include (but are not limited to):

Number of floors/levels in complex
Number of units per floor
Availability of space in basement to install fibre access terminals/trays
Presence of vertical risers to carry fibre to each level
Presence of existing horizontal cable trays to carry cabling around the floor
Access space between units to get fibre into each unit
Free space within wall/floor/ceiling cavities to pull fibre, if no risers
Ability to use surface mount trunking on inside or outside of building where there are no internal risers

Every building is different so the solution in each case is usually customized to some extent.

^GL

gettingimpatient

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1215161 15-Jan-2015 00:08

Thank you ChorusNZ for such a detailed reply. That really clears up a few things I was wondering about.
Now I just have to see how the body corporate feels about signing off on consents...

gettingimpatient

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1233315 9-Feb-2015 11:46

So the latest I've heard is that the building manager has met with Chorus and was told that there are no accessible risers in the building, making this a particularly difficult install.
It sounds like the building manager is being pushed towards a VDSL deployment, but there's no way the in-building copper is CAT5e.
Would it really cost more than the subsidised amount ($32k) to run the cabling over the external walls and drill into the apartments?

Jase2985

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Reply # 1233333 9-Feb-2015 12:19

1. asthetics
2. water proofing
3. not vandal proof

DravidDavid

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Reply # 1233334 9-Feb-2015 12:22

gettingimpatient: So the latest I've heard is that the building manager has met with Chorus and was told that there are no accessible risers in the building, making this a particularly difficult install.
It sounds like the building manager is being pushed towards a VDSL deployment, but there's no way the in-building copper is CAT5e.
Would it really cost more than the subsidised amount ($32k) to run the cabling over the external walls and drill into the apartments?

Not sure the building owner would go for that option. It wouldn't look pretty!

Body corporates are never easy to deal with. I had to deal with two of them for our 1 building that's technically considered 2 buildings and it was a nightmare! The best way to get their A in to G is to email and call them about it every day until they do something.

Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

gettingimpatient

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Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1233336 9-Feb-2015 12:27

To be clear, I discussed the "sky installer" option with the building manager, and we agreed it would be an acceptable (and presumably cheap) option.

sbiddle

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Reply # 1233391 9-Feb-2015 13:32

One person supports this post

The real world reality is that there will be plenty of MDUs that will never gain access to UFB because building owners and body corps will never fund the required investment.

If you think you would have a reasonable number of people who are interested in faster speeds and could be interested in a solution PM me. We supply connections using Ethernet and inbuilding VDSL2 to a lot of buildings around Wellington.

gettingimpatient

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1233408 9-Feb-2015 13:53

lol no

stevenb

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Reply # 1233418 9-Feb-2015 14:06

I must be a lucky one.
My apartment building was built with Hybrid Fibre down to the ground floor for all apartments..

Now just to get Chorus to run the fibre 50 metres from the Library to the Apartment Cabinet, 10 or so techs and photos each time and I wait. Best part is Chorus send the techs out thinking it is already done

gettingimpatient

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

Reply # 1239883 16-Feb-2015 11:52

I have a few more questions for ChorusNZ
If in-building VDSL is selected as a temporary solution:
1. Can the existing cat-nothing phone cabling be used?
2. Will this support connecting to all ISPs that have VDSL service available in the area?
3. Will ADSL services continue to work for tenants?

As mentioned earlier, the rough estimate given to the BC for a fibre installation was surprisingly high, mainly due to there being no accessible risers.
Excuse my ignorance of cabling practices, but can this be done one the cheap by using the existing copper as draw-cable, or by running the cabling over the exterior of the building?

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