Shared Driveway Consenting Nightmare

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Shared Driveway Consenting Nightmare - please help!

WagtheDog

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#166350 10-Mar-2015 16:50

Hi
I am in central Napier and own my own property. It is on an old shared cross lease title with two other properties. We are the rear property with both other properties in front of us, one of which is a a rental the other is a holiday home with the owner rarely there.
We share a driveway on a flat section. All current services are provided via a service channel running from the street under the driveway to the house - we know this as we had to have new telco cabling laid about 5 years ago.

We have a home office and I work from home as a contractor 3 days a week and a fast internet connection is essential. Our street is one of the oldest in the city and copper based broadband is painfully slow (less that 1 mps up or down) so we have a local provider using air based broadband which give speeds in the 10+ range, but fluctuates and is fiendishly expensive - over $250 per month. So signing up to UFB is a no brainer right?

We have a great local provider and they submitted the request to Chorus. This was in September 2014. Our issue - our two absentee neighbours not willing to provide consent as they don't want our driveway dug up. Not a problem, we have the service channel and we sought independent legal advice to confirm this.

But No. Chorus' belligerence about insisting on a consent, that is not even necessary, BEFORE they even send their scoper out. I explained to Chorus Legal that we had the services in place, but they were unmoved. I then re approached the neighbours and gave them every reassurance that the driveway would not be touched and sent them they paperwork, of which they told me that they completed. Chorus claim they do not have it - frustrating when in reality THEY DO NOT NEED IT!

So if any one from Chorus, with some common sense is monitoring, can you please tell me how I can get our property scoped so we move forward with our UFB. One neighbour can't see the point of providing the consent (but had told me they have) as they are aware that it is not required. So can you please help, my next course of action is exploring legal advice or the local MP and I don't want to resort to this as it is time wasting for all parties involved.

So Chorus - are you out there? Can you help?

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Geekzone

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#1254754 10-Mar-2015 16:50

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Chorusnz

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Chorus

#1254806 10-Mar-2015 17:25

As you point out, you have a shared driveway that is subject to a cross lease.

That means that you do not have exclusive ownership nor exclusive use of the driveway. Any previous consent relating to the previous installation of copper services does not automatically confer consent to install a new fibre network ( it would make life easier if this was the case ).

Therefore in order that we can work in the driveway ( which is private property) Chorus and its contractors need written consent from all owners to enter the property & undertake the required work.

If you are in contact with the other owners then take a copy of the ROW consent form ( can be downloaded from our website), get them to complete & sign it and then email it to us on their behalf.

Once we have consent registered in our property database for all owners we can proceed with the provisioning work. Without consent it will not even start.

^GL

Loismustdye

927 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#1254849 10-Mar-2015 18:22

Interesting.

Im in palmy and own the house, along with 2 other properties down a shared driveway.
When our neighbours (3 houses have shared access/ownership of the long driveway) had UFB installed 1.5 years ago neither myself nor the other neighbours were approached by either the neighbour (having UFB installed) or chorus about access to the driveway for a full day.
We were also not asked to fill in any form for access by either party.
When i had UFB installed almost one year ago once again i was not asked to seek approval from my neighbours for access to the driveway to have the fibre run up the driveway. Chorus also did not seek permission to have access from either neighbour.
This is made all the more interestin by the fact that the termination point for fibre is past my house and right next to the next neighbours "driveway that comes off the driveway", meaning that for rhe day their "driveway" was blocked as chorus set about feeding the fibre from the termination point up the ducting to my property.

In my case did chorus not follow the correct proceedure? Or have thing changed from 12 months ago and prermission is needed where previously it was not?

Im not complaining, but think that this almost exact scenario took place here 12-18 months ago with no problems.

sonyxperiageek

2958 posts

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#1254854 10-Mar-2015 18:30

I would also like the answer to the above, as I will probably be in the same predicament when I can get fibre. We are also on a shared driveway.

Sony

DarthKermit

5346 posts

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#1254855 10-Mar-2015 18:33

Does it make any difference (as far as consents go) if the fibre is run along fences vs. buried?

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#1254857 10-Mar-2015 18:38

As far as i'm concerned the law needs a change.

Can your neighbours block electricity / phone or other essential services to your house?

So, why are they allowed to block UFB?

InstallerUFB

840 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1254860 10-Mar-2015 18:43

DarthKermit: Does it make any difference (as far as consents go) if the fibre is run along fences vs. buried?

Concent to install the UFB network via private or sheared property has nothing to do with the method of deployment in the first instance.

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InstallerUFB

840 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1254866 10-Mar-2015 18:50

surfisup1000: As far as i'm concerned the law needs a change.

Can your neighbours block electricity / phone or other essential services to your house?

So, why are they allowed to block UFB?

Actualy your neighbours can block the construction of any services to your property through theirs no mater what they are unless there is an existing/ or negotiated legal easement for that service. There is not likely to be existing concent/easments for the construction of the UFB newtork through private property.

InstallerUFB

840 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1254872 10-Mar-2015 19:02

Loismustdye: Interesting.

Im in palmy and own the house, along with 2 other properties down a shared driveway.
When our neighbours (3 houses have shared access/ownership of the long driveway) had UFB installed 1.5 years ago neither myself nor the other neighbours were approached by either the neighbour (having UFB installed) or chorus about access to the driveway for a full day.
We were also not asked to fill in any form for access by either party.
When i had UFB installed almost one year ago once again i was not asked to seek approval from my neighbours for access to the driveway to have the fibre run up the driveway. Chorus also did not seek permission to have access from either neighbour.
This is made all the more interestin by the fact that the termination point for fibre is past my house and right next to the next neighbours "driveway that comes off the driveway", meaning that for rhe day their "driveway" was blocked as chorus set about feeding the fibre from the termination point up the ducting to my property.

In my case did chorus not follow the correct proceedure? Or have thing changed from 12 months ago and prermission is needed where previously it was not?

Im not complaining, but think that this almost exact scenario took place here 12-18 months ago with no problems.

Depending on the construction of the existing Copper common ducting syst
ems no concenting is sort for the addition of the UFB network in these ducts as the UFB network is installed with the existing copper network and its implied concent and only if there is a requirement to add or adjust the ducting on the shared/cross leased area are all party concents sort.

Concent to access and concent to install are two differnt things.

Lias

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#1254920 10-Mar-2015 20:26

As Charles Dickens once wrote "The law is an ass."

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

vroom

89 posts

Master Geek

#1256256 11-Mar-2015 12:33

There must be an easement to convey services - you need to check with a lawyer but I would imagine you have the right to use it for telecommunications.

Jase2985

13457 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#1256289 11-Mar-2015 13:18

vroom: There must be an easement to convey services - you need to check with a lawyer but I would imagine you have the right to use it for telecommunications.

that might be true but the workers will still need consent to come onto the drive to do the work

MikeAqua

7773 posts

Uber Geek

#1256301 11-Mar-2015 13:33

Check the title for an easement. Usually where properties share a driveway there is an easement.

I doubt the workers need approval from all owners to do work for the driveway if they aren't disturbing or blocking it.

Mike

WagtheDog

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1256330 11-Mar-2015 14:02

MikeAqua: Check the title for an easement. Usually where properties share a driveway there is an easement.

I doubt the workers need approval from all owners to do work for the driveway if they aren't disturbing or blocking it.

Hi Mike - That is what I checked into with our Lawyer - the easement is on 'essential services' & since the law hasn't kept pace with technology, copper is part of the easement, but of course fibre is not mentioned. My lawyer is certain if this was tested in court that we would win - but again, why SHOULD I have to test this in court.

The frustrations is that the service channel access is on the street, so Chorus worker would not even have to dig up, or occupy the driveway. But without the consent they won't even send their scoper too look.

I ponder whether petitioning Steven Joyce's office would any better results or do I have to sit around and wait for the slow wheels of our lawmakers to turn. The ultimate frustration is that I know one of the neighbours has expressed interest in getting connected and whilst she had verbally told me she has completed the ROW paper work, she doesn't require my consent to do so - SO very, very unfair.

WagtheDog

7 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1256338 11-Mar-2015 14:27

Chorusnz: As you point out, you have a shared driveway that is subject to a cross lease.

That means that you do not have exclusive ownership nor exclusive use of the driveway. Any previous consent relating to the previous installation of copper services does not automatically confer consent to install a new fibre network ( it would make life easier if this was the case ).

Therefore in order that we can work in the driveway ( which is private property) Chorus and its contractors need written consent from all owners to enter the property & undertake the required work.

If you are in contact with the other owners then take a copy of the ROW consent form ( can be downloaded from our website), get them to complete & sign it and then email it to us on their behalf.

Once we have consent registered in our property database for all owners we can proceed with the provisioning work. Without consent it will not even start.

^GL

Yes, but they don't have to 'enter' the property surely consent isn't required?
The access point is on public land and the final point is on my property - even if they started their installation on my property and worked back to front - no work would take place on the shared driveway.
C'mon Chorus, surely you can think outside the square? I can't be the only person with issue?

I have the ROW consent and both have told me they have returned this to you, however I am told that not all the paperwork is in place. I have tried to find our whether it is one or both of the owners I have to chase to get then to do the paper work, but you will not release this information. So frustrating as it took 4 months of constant negotiation to get them to consent to me in the first instance and now if I go back to one of the parties & their consent IS with you, it appears I don't take them at their word. Both are absentee owners, so hard to pin down & have little interest in being good neighbours. To add insult to injury, one of them has expressed interest to get connected and is MY consent required - of course not!

Chorus, all I am asking for is some lateral thinking in solving this issue - if you even issue the scoper, I can then take his/her report BACK to my neighbours for reassurance & reissue ROW consent, or approach the two sets of adjacent neighbours (both who are owner occupiers) to see if they would consent access through their properties, but you take ANY option for other solutions away but not letting the first step of the process take place.

I am not asking you to break the law - I am asking for you to help me work within the law to find a solution instead of having a very linear approach - show some #8 wire ingenuity Chorus - I dare you!

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