bonded adsl

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jdgamez

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Topic # 26940 7-Oct-2008 22:58

is there any isp in newzealand that support combinding multiple adsl lines into one big pipe to get faster speeds.

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Reply # 169742 8-Oct-2008 00:21

I can't remember if anyone supports port bonding on UBS, perhaps on a LLU connection, but it would probably be cheaper to rent a 2nd phone line and use a load balancing router/firewall box accross 2 ADSL connections.

muppet

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Reply # 169743 8-Oct-2008 00:29

eXDee: I can't remember if anyone supports port bonding on UBS, perhaps on a LLU connection, but it would probably be cheaper to rent a 2nd phone line and use a load balancing router/firewall box accross 2 ADSL connections.

How do you propose load balancing though if it's not bonded? There's no "magic box" that can make true per-packet load balancing work over separate ADSL services. The best you can hope for is destination based balancing (ie this /24 routes down teh left, this /24 routes down the right) and that's very ugly.

@jdgamez: I can't answer I'm sorry, I'm not in NZ anymore.

jdgamez

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Reply # 169747 8-Oct-2008 00:48

yes i have heard of load balancing before but i wasnt sure if i would see any performance gains or not

muppet

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Reply # 169748 8-Oct-2008 01:12

@jdgames:

Here's a Link that explains it OK.

The key statement is this: "Therefore, one outbound connection will never run faster than the speed of one external links."

If you had one huge download running over one link, you could have your other traffic going over the second ADSL link. It'd take some configuration work/a magic box. But the key thing is your one huge download couldn't utilise both links concurrently. For that, you NEED link aggregation, supported by your ISP.

cyril7

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Reply # 169758 8-Oct-2008 07:18

hi, Telecom most definetely does not support it on there DSLAMs and so any UBS using that, and I have not heard of either Orcon or Voda/Ihug doing it. If you are within 1km of Parnell exchange maybe try the voda VDSL2 trial, although i think its closed for new trialist at this time, saw figures of 50/16 on the voda forum.

Cyril

RalphFromSnap

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Reply # 169820 8-Oct-2008 11:34

jdgamez: is there any isp in newzealand that support combinding multiple adsl lines into one big pipe to get faster speeds.

Snap has been successful at setting this up at one of our Employees homes.

We have managed to bond 2x DSL (1x 13883/1027kbit and 1x 11734/836kbit – both ADSL 2+) links into a single link that operates at around 20500/1600kbit. The cool part of this setup is that it is also redundant; we can unplug one link and not have any impact on services using TCP, and only lose a handful of packets with UDP.

Unfortunately we still have this in the ‘development’ box and can’t offer this nor support you setting up your own. We are still developing this, and more so exploring the impact these services will have on our network. I can however, dispel the rumor that this will require LLU or work from Telecom Wholesale. We have done this completely on our own (and no, it's not eUBA - though we have sucessfully multilinked that also).

If you’re interested in this project I’ll take post up some photos and diagrams around how this setup works.

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manhinli

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Reply # 169822 8-Oct-2008 11:46

g.bond is pretty rare and even more rarer are the modems which support it.

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timbosan

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Reply # 169828 8-Oct-2008 12:00

What about something like the Peplink Balance products? They do link aggregation and load balancing as well as fail over, and go from SOHO to enterprise level. I was looking at getting one for combining my Woosh and DSL connections. Some models even have 3 WAN ports so you can also add in a 3G or Wifi router.

You would still need to provision 2 DSL lines.

Or I am completely on the wrong track????? ;-)

cyril7

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Reply # 169831 8-Oct-2008 12:11

Draytek also have a series of dual wan routers some with built in adsl modems, others can use USB for vodem type devices. These can be used for failover, or load balance type setups.

Cyril

nate

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Reply # 169848 8-Oct-2008 13:07

cyril7: Draytek also have a series of dual wan routers some with built in adsl modems, others can use USB for vodem type devices. These can be used for failover, or load balance type setups.

I can vouch for this scenario, I'm not that technical minded networking-wise so I can't go into the exact details, but our Draytek load balances our two ADSL connections perfectly.

If anyone wants more info about how to accomplish this, send me a PM and I'll get one of my techs to contact you.

RalphFromSnap

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Reply # 169854 8-Oct-2008 13:18

The Draytek and the Pepelink products are similar - but do IP load balancing. So open new connections up on the least congested link.
If you have 2x ADSL links, say both at 10mbit. You will never exceed 10mbit in any single transaction, for applications such as Bit Torrent, you won't notice this - however for HTTP and FTP etc, you will be stuck with 10mbit.

Our method is different, and load balances accross the two connections, if you are downloading a single stream of HTTP at 400kb/s it will be using both links at 200kb/s each rather than 1 at 400kb/s and the other at 0kb/s.

The usual reason for doing this is not for downstream, but for upstream. Which is where our implementation is much stronger.

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timbosan

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Reply # 169855 8-Oct-2008 13:24

RalphFromSnap: The Draytek and the Pepelink products are similar - but do IP load balancing. So open new connections up on the least congested link.
If you have 2x ADSL links, say both at 10mbit. You will never exceed 10mbit in any single transaction, for applications such as Bit Torrent, you won't notice this - however for HTTP and FTP etc, you will be stuck with 10mbit.

Our method is different, and load balances accross the two connections, if you are downloading a single stream of HTTP at 400kb/s it will be using both links at 200kb/s each rather than 1 at 400kb/s and the other at 0kb/s.

The usual reason for doing this is not for downstream, but for upstream. Which is where our implementation is much stronger.

So Ralph, with all these spoilers, are you going to shed any light on how this is done for those of use drooling over the thought? Are you using customised hardware/software or is it more along the configuration road?

ANY info would be appriciated, this is the kind of feature that I would change ISP's for! Actually, does that mean 2 DSL plans? One for each line?

This could be a real alternative for those of us who are too far from the exchange to make VDSL work, but can still get ok DSL speeds.

Ragnor

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Reply # 169889 8-Oct-2008 15:45

Wouldn't bonded ADSL be pointless? Given for just about everything interesting you are limited to what international bandthwidth your ISP and their route can give you which is pretty much always much less than what you sync with your exchange or cabinet at.

cyril7

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Reply # 169893 8-Oct-2008 15:52

Wouldn't bonded ADSL be pointless? Given for just about everything interesting you are limited to what international bandthwidth your ISP and their route can give you which is pretty much always much less than what you sync with your exchange or cabinet at.

agreed, most folk find that they never can download from any site faster than around 80% of a full sync ADSL1 connection, and thats a very favourable connection. Obviously mass multiple TCP connections skew this, but for normal functions???

Cyril

Ragnor

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Reply # 169910 8-Oct-2008 16:28

I guess bonded dsl could help on really really congested backhaul from the exchange to the ISP's handover.

Telecom backhaul from the exchange to the ISP's handover used to have like 300:1 contention ratio with only 32 Kilobits/s gauranteed per subscriber. Did they increase it during the UBS and LLU rollouts or with the current cabinetization?

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