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Topic # 60605 28-Apr-2010 20:12
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Here's something to look forward to in the near future.

Apr. 20, 2010, 9:00pm PDT

In this era of fiber to the home, it's easy to dismiss copper-based DSL, the broadband connectivity technology commonly sold by phone companies worldwide.

Looks like it's too soon to completely write off this technology, however.

Alcatel-Lucent, a company whose lineage is as old as the phone itself, says its research arm, Bell Labs, has been able to achieve downstream speeds of about 300 Mbps (over a distance of 400 meters) or 100 Mbps over a distance of one kilometer.

This is possible using a technology called DSL Phantom Mode. According to the company:

At its core, DSL Phantom Mode involves the creation of a virtual or "phantom" channel that supplements the two physical wires that are the standard configuration for copper transmission lines. Bell Labs innovation and the source of DSL Phantom Mode's dramatic increase in transmission capacity lies in its application of analogue phantom mode technology in combination with industry-standard techniques: vectoring that eliminates interference or "crosstalk" between copper wires, and bonding that makes it possible to take individual lines and aggregate them.

The idea behind DSL Phantom Mode is that incumbent phone companies such as AT&T, which are heavily invested into the aging copper infrastructure, can keep using those pipes for a lot longer. However, phone companies such as Qwest will need to install new gear in the central office and in consumer homes.

Alcatel-Lucent?s efforts aren't the only attempts to extend copper's life and make DSL go faster and faster. Stanford University professor John Cioffi is working on a gigabit DSL solution and has started a company to give DSL a lift.

Source: http://gigaom.com/2010/04/20/dsl-speed-300-mbps/




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  Reply # 324450 28-Apr-2010 22:48
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near future, year sure.

near future in the technologically advanced world maybe; but not in nz.

:>

i'd be happy to get anything faster tho...

does anyone know what's the average last-mile distance in nz?

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  Reply # 324489 29-Apr-2010 00:50
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mindoka: near future, year sure.

near future in the technologically advanced world maybe; but not in nz.

:>

i'd be happy to get anything faster tho...

does anyone know what's the average last-mile distance in nz?


a mile?    Tongue out

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 324490 29-Apr-2010 00:52
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1.6km

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  Reply # 324501 29-Apr-2010 05:56
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This article also appeared on Computerworld and a contributor suggested the average loop length (E side?) is 500m.

At some stage Telecom included a graph showing D side and E side distances in one of their submissions to the Commerce Commission. I cant seem to find which one tho!

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  Reply # 324502 29-Apr-2010 06:32
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With cabinetisation the maximum distance from an exchange or cabinet is a maximum of roughly 2km.

There are a few other figures regarding distance that I have heard (and can't remember specifics) but I believe that for somewhere around like 75% of those users the distance is under 1km.

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  Reply # 324507 29-Apr-2010 07:05
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sbiddle: With cabinetisation the maximum distance from an exchange or cabinet is a maximum of roughly 2km.

There are a few other figures regarding distance that I have heard (and can't remember specifics) but I believe that for somewhere around like 75% of those users the distance is under 1km.


So based on the news article 75% of households could get 100Mbps from this technology?
Thats about the same as GPON fibre?
ANd I'm going to guess that the network and final drop+CPE using this version of bonded VDSL + Phantom mode is likely to cost less than the $3+bn proposed FTTH network?

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  Reply # 324556 29-Apr-2010 09:40
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If the FTTH goes ahead will prices come down for the faster speeds?
We can get fibre here in Whangarei, mostly in the central city but NorthPower are expanding all the time.
All the plans I've seen available for this fibre are 5-10Mbps. This is no faster than an ADSL2+ connection.
Sure your upload speed is the same but who needs that at home?
Prices vary from about $80/mth up to about $300/mth depending on speed and data cap.




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  Reply # 324601 29-Apr-2010 10:59
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Hard to get excited about this, fibre is better in so many ways:

For example:
- Distance doesn't have as much of a negative effect on performance/line rate
- Lower latency
- Doesn't require two lines
- Has a much higher ceiling for future increases in speed.


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  Reply # 324604 29-Apr-2010 11:03
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Ragnor: Hard to get excited about this, fibre is better in so many ways:

For example:
- Distance doesn't have as much of a negative effect on performance/line rate
- Lower latency
- Doesn't require two lines
- Has a much higher ceiling for future increases in speed.



And it garners no incremental revenue but costs billions of dollars for the privilege.

Every company and country should be investing in it.
Those that have already and have regrets please keep quiet.

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  Reply # 324623 29-Apr-2010 11:35
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- No incremental revenue
- Early adopter countries/companies regret their fibre investments

What evidence/research are you basing those two statements on?

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  Reply # 324631 29-Apr-2010 11:50
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Ragnor: - No incremental revenue
- Early adopter countries/companies regret their fibre investments

What evidence/research are you basing those two statements on?


Most recently:
Japan scaling back its FTTH target from 50% to 30%.  After 10 years of selling fibre having less than 30% takeup of homes passed (they pass 90% of homes) and average speeds of 7.5Mbps across the country (source Akamai's State of the Internet quarterly report).

Verizon suspending further investment in rolling out fibre - with ~30% takeup of homes passed they have decided to focus on lifting penetration of homes past (ie its uneconomic to keep rolling out).  A $20bn investment to date with 3m connections and still in EBITDA losses (EBITDA less capital expenditure means its a real cashflow drag!).

Axis's quarterly reports indicating the number of connected homes in France and Alberta for the networks they run on behalf of the local operators.  The suspension of RFP for another Canadian region - seems like they might have got cold feet on this fibre thingy.

Prior to that - the Network Strategies report that highlights rollouts in different regions of the world.  None of them making profits and all substantially lower than expectations in terms of take up of services.

There might have been references in the report to the Auckland local authorities on fibre but its been so many months since I read that report that the only timely and relevant data that remains from it:
- 20 years til breakeven with 90% takeup of services and incredibly low funding costs (all debt)
- that Auckland households are willing to pay less for superfast internet + calling + paytv than they currently pay for services now. 
That report is a great read for anyone considering investing in Auckland fibre.



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Reply # 324887 29-Apr-2010 18:45
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mindoka: near future, year sure.

near future in the technologically advanced world maybe; but not in nz.

:>

i'd be happy to get anything faster tho...

does anyone know what's the average last-mile distance in nz?


Actually it's quite possible it will be available here in the near future as Alcatel Lucent is the supplier of the ISAMs that are being installed by Chorus as part of the FTTN project.

Each ISAM Linecard is already capable of xDSL services up to VDSL2 which can deliver 100Mbps down but have been soft limited in NZ to 50Mbps for realiability.

So it's quite conceivable that we could see ISAM Linecard coming out with the new 300Mbps options well before the final ISAMs are installed in late 2011.




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  Reply # 324893 29-Apr-2010 18:56
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Ragnor: Hard to get excited about this, fibre is better in so many ways:

For example:
- Distance doesn't have as much of a negative effect on performance/line rate
- Lower latency
- Doesn't require two lines
- Has a much higher ceiling for future increases in speed.



Sure Fibre has these advantages and that is why Fibre is the backbone of the existing Telecommunications here in NZ and around the world.

The only drawback for last mile applications is that it requires overlaying the copper network at the last mile for each subscriber. An extremely costly exercise which no privately owned company in NZ has been prepared to back to date. ROI does not stack up to get financed. It's simply not commercially viable.

Fibre will come in time as a natural expansion of the networks.

The point that many are missing is that there still a lot of life left in the copper infrastructure that allows for high speed data transmission when the need arises for an individual subscriber, all without putting a shovel in the ground.

What's so bad about that?




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  Reply # 325057 30-Apr-2010 05:39
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teletek:
Ragnor: Hard to get excited about this, fibre is better in so many ways:

For example:
- Distance doesn't have as much of a negative effect on performance/line rate
- Lower latency
- Doesn't require two lines
- Has a much higher ceiling for future increases in speed.



Sure Fibre has these advantages and that is why Fibre is the backbone of the existing Telecommunications here in NZ and around the world.

The only drawback for last mile applications is that it requires overlaying the copper network at the last mile for each subscriber. An extremely costly exercise which no privately owned company in NZ has been prepared to back to date. ROI does not stack up to get financed. It's simply not commercially viable.

Fibre will come in time as a natural expansion of the networks.

The point that many are missing is that there still a lot of life left in the copper infrastructure that allows for high speed data transmission when the need arises for an individual subscriber, all without putting a shovel in the ground.

What's so bad about that?





Its a shame that the Prime Minister (thanks to the NZ Institute) and the Government miss the point too. 
Spending $1.5bn on reducing the countries debt or having more doctors/teachers/etc rather than a meaningless replacement of something that isnt broken.

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  Reply # 325359 30-Apr-2010 16:45
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I would tend to agree. I wouldn't mind however seeing commercial/industrial areas supplied with more affordable fibre options. E.g. atm it's kinda like $2000 per month for 10mbps/1mbps international on a 36month contract. 100mbps National for $300-$400 a month would create a lot more update and could create a thriving SaaS industry in NZ.

In terms of peoples home, there isn't much point apart from new subdivisions or where the road is already being ripped up. TBH most of the speed problems are due to Telecom Wholesales poor backhaul network and pricing model. I think the biggest gain a Telecom independent fibre rollout will see is the ability to bypass that problem.

Maybe the 1.5BN could be used by companies like FX to build their own networks to the cabinets and provide a true high bandwidth competing option against Telecom wholesale.





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