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4 posts

Wannabe Geek


# 251008 4-Jun-2019 19:23
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Hi all

 

I am currently having a first home built via a house/land package, and have been provided with a proposed electrical/wiring plan by the building company. This has motivated me to read up a little on networking matters, which I am not overly familiar with. I thought it would be useful to get some thoughts from others on this topic. 

 

I have attached the electrical plan for your reference. The house is a very basic, small one-level 145sqm house. I assume we will be able to get fibre internet to the location. The house will most likely be occupied by four adults (flatting situation) who mainly use the internet for browsing and streaming videos (we are not going to have a LAN for sharing downloaded movies or anything fancy like that). We do not intend to have any media devices in the living area (only in the bedrooms) - however this could possibly change in the future if we decide to have a communal viewing area. 

 

It would be great to hear people's thoughts on the following:

 

- Given the small size of the house, is it likely that a single wireless internet transmitter would be sufficient for the entire house? It would be quite convenient to store this in the "Store" cupboard near the entrance.

 

- Given that the users of the house are likely to use the internet for browsing/streaming only (rather than gaming etc), is there any real need for any wired ethernet outputs? or is wireless internet likely to be sufficient? 

 

- Is it possible for there to be "too many" devices for a single wireless transmitter, such that speed would be compromised?  It is important that four devices can stream HD video simultaneously with no issues.

 

- Is there any real need for a telephone output these days?  Some people have suggested to have one "just in case" - but I cannot foresee any instance where I would ever need one, as I only use cell phone / internet for communication. It therefore probably makes sense to either reject the telephone outputs, or swap them for additional ethernet outputs  (and I think the wiring is the same for ethernet or telephones anyway..? So I could just change the end-connector if ever needed?)

 

- Assuming that I do decide to have ethernet outputs around the house (rather than just relying on WiFi), would the simplest wiring set-up be: (1) cables go from each room (RJ45 jackpoint) to a distribution box in garage where they terminate at a RJ45 connector and plug into Router; and (2) Drill a hole to the Store cupboard and have a small cable connecting the Router to the wireless transmitter in the Store cupboard.

 

- Is there anything else I should be thinking about / asking the building company? (who will presumably liaise with an electrician contractor in due course). Obviously there is endless opportunity to set things up perfectly when building from scratch - however I am a fan of simplicity, and if all I need is a simple wireless transmitter, then there is no need to go over the top!        

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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400 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2251483 4-Jun-2019 19:41
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As a sparky, I would suggest more than one powerpoint per room on opposite sides as you can never have too many powerpoints ever.

 

I also wouldn't skimp on running data everywhere as a wired connection is always best!

 

When you run data cables to the chosen locations I would run 2 as a rule of thumb, but for the likes of the tv, I would run 4.

 

For Wireless I have 2 access points in my own home one at either end of the house and that suffices as well as giving some coverage outside.

 

Data cable is cheap and its a hell of a lot easier to wire for it all now even if you don't need to use it you can just blank it all off.

 

The same goes for power points, the cable is cheap and its easier to prewire it all while there is no gib on the walls.

 

 


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  # 2251510 4-Jun-2019 19:59
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sparkz25:

 

As a sparky, I would suggest more than one powerpoint per room on opposite sides as you can never have too many powerpoints ever.

 

I also wouldn't skimp on running data everywhere as a wired connection is always best!

 

When you run data cables to the chosen locations I would run 2 as a rule of thumb, but for the likes of the tv, I would run 4.

 

For Wireless I have 2 access points in my own home one at either end of the house and that suffices as well as giving some coverage outside.

 

Data cable is cheap and its a hell of a lot easier to wire for it all now even if you don't need to use it you can just blank it all off.

 

The same goes for power points, the cable is cheap and its easier to prewire it all while there is no gib on the walls.

 

 

 

 

+1 from me.

 

You will not regret running data cables and having more power points.

 

What suits you today may not suit next year.

 

Being that you are planning on using wifi heavily, go two access points.

 

John.

 

 





I know enough to be dangerous


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2251536 4-Jun-2019 20:46
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Completely agree with the comments above; you will definitely want to add a few more power outlets to the rooms.

- Given the small size of the house, is it likely that a single wireless internet transmitter would be sufficient for the entire house? It would be quite convenient to store this in the "Store" cupboard near the entrance.


We have a single centrally-located wifi access point that covers our whole house well, but we are a bit smaller than you, at about 110 sqm. Probably safer to go for two.

For best results, you won't want to have the access point(s) in a cupboard, because it will block some of the signal. Have you considered ceiling mounted access points? You can get some that are quite discreet. Installing them is very straightforward - all they need is a single ethernet cable for both power and data.

- Given that the users of the house are likely to use the internet for browsing/streaming only (rather than gaming etc), is there any real need for any wired ethernet outputs? or is wireless internet likely to be sufficient? 


You should wire for the access point(s), and I'd suggest at the very least you also wire to behind potential TV locations for steaming devices.

- Is it possible for there to be "too many" devices for a single wireless transmitter, such that speed would be compromised?  It is important that four devices can stream HD video simultaneously with no issues.


What you're proposing would probably work fine just on wifi. But, the bandwidth of each wifi access point is shared between the users, so its better to wire everything that can be, and leave the wireless bandwidth for portable devices.

If you're using the network just for accessing the Internet, then you probably won't notice any difference, as your internet connection is likely to be the limiting factor (unless you get gigabit). But, if you decide to put your network to other uses in the future, then you might notice a difference.

As an example, I have a NAS box on my network which the laptops in the house back up to. If it was connected wirelessly, backing up to it and accessing the files on it would be much slower.

- Is there any real need for a telephone output these days?  Some people have suggested to have one "just in case" - but I cannot foresee any instance where I would ever need one, as I only use cell phone / internet for communication. It therefore probably makes sense to either reject the telephone outputs, or swap them for additional ethernet outputs  (and I think the wiring is the same for ethernet or telephones anyway..? So I could just change the end-connector if ever needed?)


No need for separate phone outlets - you can use the network jacks for either phone or data. Switch any phone jacks you have for network jacks. To plug a phone into it, you just get a phone cord with an RJ45 connector on it.

- Assuming that I do decide to have ethernet outputs around the house (rather than just relying on WiFi), would the simplest wiring set-up be: (1) cables go from each room (RJ45 jackpoint) to a distribution box in garage where they terminate at a RJ45 connector and plug into Router; and (2) Drill a hole to the Store cupboard and have a small cable connecting the Router to the wireless transmitter in the Store cupboard.


That's right, you would have a network cabinet or rack in the garage with all the cables terminating at RJ45 connectors on a patch panel. You can then use that to patch in data outlets, or phones if you decide to get some.

As above, I wouldn't have the wifi in the cupboard.

- Is there anything else I should be thinking about / asking the building company? (who will presumably liaise with an electrician contractor in due course). Obviously there is endless opportunity to set things up perfectly when building from scratch - however I am a fan of simplicity, and if all I need is a simple wireless transmitter, then there is no need to go over the top!


You also need to think about where the fibre is going to come into the house, and how you are going to connect this to the network cabinet / patch panel in your garage.

The best option, if its workable, would be to get some conduit running from the outside point where the fibre will enter the building, right to the network cabinet in the garage. The ONT (i.e. "fibre modem") can then be installed in that cabinet alongside the patch panel. An alternative to the conduit would be to prewire with the appropriate spec fibre.

If that's not workable, then you can find an alternative location to install the ONT alongside a power outlet, and run data from there to the network cabinet. If you go that way, I suggest at least 3 data cables from that location to the cabinet.

Good luck!

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  # 2251547 4-Jun-2019 21:20
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One extra thing if you ever plan to have a projector put power and 3/4 network cables in the roof where it might logically go.
Then again with 65/75" TVs the necessity for projectors isn't as important as it was.







4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 2252860 6-Jun-2019 11:18
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Thanks all. This is very helpful and will definitely be taken into account!

 

Just in relation to the ceiling mounted access points - is it fairly straightforward to implement a "power over Ethernet" option?

 

 

 

Cheers


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Master Geek
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  # 2252894 6-Jun-2019 11:56
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jbjbjb: Just in relation to the ceiling mounted access points - is it fairly straightforward to implement a "power over Ethernet" option?

 

 

 

Yes, a PoE Adaptor or PoE Network Switch will provide this. just implement it somewhere along the line between router and AP


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  # 2252906 6-Jun-2019 12:09
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Yep, normally poe injector is placed back at the cabinet with the switch, or you could use a poe switch. The injector is two port device, lan port and poe port, the lan port goes to your switch to connect to data, the poe side connects to the cabling going to the WAP suppling both data and power, obviously the injector also has a 230V input to derive the power for the WAP

 

Cyril


 
 
 
 




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Wannabe Geek


  # 2254249 8-Jun-2019 12:17
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You also need to think about where the fibre is going to come into the house, and how you are going to connect this to the network cabinet / patch panel in your garage.

The best option, if its workable, would be to get some conduit running from the outside point where the fibre will enter the building, right to the network cabinet in the garage. The ONT (i.e. "fibre modem") can then be installed in that cabinet alongside the patch panel. An alternative to the conduit would be to prewire with the appropriate spec fibre.

If that's not workable, then you can find an alternative location to install the ONT alongside a power outlet, and run data from there to the network cabinet. If you go that way, I suggest at least 3 data cables from that location to the cabinet.   
 

 

 

 

Hi,  just a couple of follow up questions in relation to the fibre comments made above.

 

I assume that the ETP would be somewhere near/beside the garage.

 

- Would Chorus only be prepared to put the ONT in the proposed cabinet area (on internal garage wall near Store), including running the fibre cable from the outside to that cabinet (via the garage ceiling?), if we had already arranged for a conduit?  If there was no conduit, would they refuse to do this? Would they instead put the ONT on an garage wall with an external side?

 

- Would it make any difference if we contacted Chorus during the build process while the walls are open?

 

- If we are required to have the ONT on an external-facing garage wall, would it be advisable to then move our proposed cabinet to that wall also? (this seems slightly disadvantageous as it might makes future DIY wiring harder, e.g. can't run a short cable through wardrobes to Master bedroom).  

 

- If we have the ONT on an external garage wall, and leave the cabinet in the proposed internal location, presumably then we need a CAT6 cable running from the ONT to the cabinet (where the router etc will be).  The post above suggests that 3x data cables should be run in this case. I was just wondering why more than 1 is needed?

 

Many thanks!


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  # 2254257 8-Jun-2019 12:59
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Hi, so is the ceiling space above the garage accessible?

 

I would recommend that the chorus green 20mm conduit from the street that the sparkie is most likely to run in the same trench as the power, and possibly the water and waste should appear near the side of the garage (near where a power point is shown in the bottom left of the diagram, Chorus will place there fibre ETP on the outside wall at this location.

 

The sparkie will run the neutral screened power cable and earth inside the wall to the switchboard. I suggest beside this you install a 25mm conduit up the inside of the wall into the ceiling space and across to the location of the cabinet. Where it goes through the top plates use either swept bends or if you must flexi conduit. If the ceiling space is not accessible then ensure you glue accessible joins between any of the conduit sections, if it is accesible then I prefer to not glue them as this eases access to sections in future should you need to.

 

When installing the conduit put a draw wire in and ensure its easily pull able, I recommend 25mm over 20mm as it means there is less chance of issues when pulling the fibre through once chorus arrive. They are most likely to install a hybrid opti5e cable in the conduit.

 

You could also consider placing an order on your ISP in advance during the build, this means chorus will turn up to scope out, you then ask them to supply the 20 or so meters of hybrid opti5e for you to install in the conduit instead of the cat5e/6 and then you know its installed ready to go with no issues. They will then return to complete the install as you move in.

 

In this build there is probably 3 lengths of conduit required (ie about 10m) which will cost aroudn $50-60 for 25mm conduit.

 

On the side of the house where the chorus 20mm duct will come from the street, Chorus will place their fibre ETP on the side of the house, I recommend that there is a hand hold directly behind that on the insdie wall, this could be the shown power point or just a blank plate on a flush box, this can be opened at the time of installation and the fibre from the ETP guided to/from the waiting conduit going up inside the wall.

 

You could just have the Opti5e run directly in the wall and ceiling, but I dont recommend this, if the fibre should ever break you have a better chance of replacement, also rodents tend to like fibre, so the conduit will protect from that.

 

Cyril


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  # 2254331 8-Jun-2019 14:37
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The post above suggests that 3x data cables should be run in this case. I was just wondering why more than 1 is needed?


This was my suggestion, because it would allow several services to be delivered from the ONT.

As well as the Internet connection requiring one cable, if you get a phone service, that may also be delivered from the ONT, requiring a second cable. Some ISPs deliver a phone service from the ONT, and others deliver it from the router they supply.

The third cable would allow a third service. In the future, it may be that television is delivered from the ONT. (Chorus was trialling this last year). Or you could run a second Internet connection from the ONT, or even back feed a data connection if you wanted another device on your network sitting next to the ONT.

Putting in more cables now just means there's less chance you will be caught short in the future. But, if you have an Internet connection and nothing else, you will only use one of these.

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  # 2254469 8-Jun-2019 17:55
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3 cables, one for ethernet from the ont, one for voice from the ont and the 3rd as a spare/draw cable


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  # 2254476 8-Jun-2019 18:29
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Jase2985:

 

3 cables, one for ethernet from the ont, one for voice from the ont and the 3rd as a spare/draw cable

 

 

+1

 

Ethernet cable is cheap.

 

It doesn't cost much more to install 2, 3, or even 4 cables per wiring run during a new build - but it costs a lot more retrofit it later.

 

Cable works better than wireless - always.

 

Do it once, and do it right.  🙂

 

 





Sideface


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2254482 8-Jun-2019 18:50
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I would suggest that you replace the garage downlights with LED batten lights. Much more light, and better spread, if you want to use the garage as a workshop or games room etc.

 

Another power socket lower right corner of garage.

 

Also put a light over the steps  at top right corner.




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Wannabe Geek


  # 2254683 9-Jun-2019 09:05
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Nice - this is all very helpful and agree with all comments.  Fingers crossed we can get the the ONT in the main cabinet area. Otherwise, will ensure there is multiple CAT6 running between - thanks for the heads up!  

 

 


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