A potential TPP gotcha

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MikeB4
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#1400697 6-Oct-2015 08:36

joker97:
nakedmolerat: Why NZ think we can still compete and offer better competitive advantage than developing countries (read mexico / malaysia / peru / chile) with cheap labour?

That's a tough one.

Increased productivity maybe?

ExaMple. Every farmer i speak to dreads hiring locals. They don't want to work the yards, knows how to take umpteen breaks, never finishes any work, goes home dead on time.

They want to hire foreigners. Works harder than anyone. Never complains. Does everything asked of them. They will get the jobs done, very reliable.

So they hire immigrants.

You mean hire them unofficially and under pay them

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

shk292

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#1400698 6-Oct-2015 08:43

So, I just looked outside and surprisingly enough, the sky hasn't fallen - in Auckland at least

There's a surprise

sbiddle

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#1400702 6-Oct-2015 08:52

Fred99:
sbiddle: I thought it had been established yesterday (after leaks came from Australia) that the US had settled on 8 years as the period for drugs? Australian media were reporting this as one of the key breakthroughs to the agreement being signed.

Staying at 5 years apparently (US had wanted 12).
The agreement being based on the assumption that it would take years for the drugs to get regulatory approval in those countries wanting to approve generics.
If there's a devil there, it's going to be in the detail, ISDS perhaps.

Well after listening to a little more this morning it seems nobody really knows the answer!

Batman

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#1400704 6-Oct-2015 08:53

MikeB4:
joker97:
nakedmolerat: Why NZ think we can still compete and offer better competitive advantage than developing countries (read mexico / malaysia / peru / chile) with cheap labour?

That's a tough one.

Increased productivity maybe?

ExaMple. Every farmer i speak to dreads hiring locals. They don't want to work the yards, knows how to take umpteen breaks, never finishes any work, goes home dead on time.

They want to hire foreigners. Works harder than anyone. Never complains. Does everything asked of them. They will get the jobs done, very reliable.

So they hire immigrants.

You mean hire them unofficially and under pay them

No there is a skills shortage under the Immigration Work Visa/Permanent Residency. They all come via agencies supported by the Department of Immigration.

Batman

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#1400705 6-Oct-2015 08:54

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/resources/working-in-dairy-farming

MikeB4

MikeB4
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#1400723 6-Oct-2015 09:26

shk292: So, I just looked outside and surprisingly enough, the sky hasn't fallen - in Auckland at least

There's a surprise

That only happens given certain circumstances at a rather large Rugby tournament

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Benoire

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#1400755 6-Oct-2015 09:59

Do we know yet if produce and meat does not have to show its origin on the label any more? That was one of the 'requests' in the agreement from what I read, but I don't know the outcome. I hope not as I want to know where my food has been produced, how it is produced etc.

I'm still sceptical about this as I do not know enough and the information I had read wasn't good reading, despite my dislike of Key I do hope he hasn't sold the Country out through concessions. I'm also concerned about two aspects; 1) pharmac will cost more but great its not the user of the medicine that will pay more... No it is the public as taxpayers so despite what has been said medicines WILL cost more in general to NZ and 2) the $2.7B is quoted as being in place in 2030 which was when the US/Japan tariffs expired... Does that mean their tariffs still exist and our dairy products won't get a look in until that time? Are we likely to be flooded with non-origin labelled products from overseas, that may OR may not be inferior?

As has been said before until we get access to the full text we won't truly know whether this is good OR bad for us, but I'm just not so optimistic seeing some of the documents when they where leaked...

sir1963

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#1400760 6-Oct-2015 10:09

Benoire: Do we know yet if produce and meat does not have to show its origin on the label any more? That was one of the 'requests' in the agreement from what I read, but I don't know the outcome. I hope not as I want to know where my food has been produced, how it is produced etc.

I'm still sceptical about this as I do not know enough and the information I had read wasn't good reading, despite my dislike of Key I do hope he hasn't sold the Country out through concessions. I'm also concerned about two aspects; 1) pharmac will cost more but great its not the user of the medicine that will pay more... No it is the public as taxpayers so despite what has been said medicines WILL cost more in general to NZ and 2) the $2.7B is quoted as being in place in 2030 which was when the US/Japan tariffs expired... Does that mean their tariffs still exist and our dairy products won't get a look in until that time? Are we likely to be flooded with non-origin labelled products from overseas, that may OR may not be inferior?

As has been said before until we get access to the full text we won't truly know whether this is good OR bad for us, but I'm just not so optimistic seeing some of the documents when they where leaked...

Its quite likely NZ will get flooded with US Dairy/Meat.
US producers are heavily subsidised
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/29/dairy-farmers-welcomefarmbillssubsidyoverhaul.html

I am sure our Dairy farmers would love a US$10 margin.

So US tax payers can subsidise US farming to dump cheap meat/dairy here in NZ
NZ farmers will get no such "help"

NZ deregulated massive portions of the economy in the 1980s, the US economy is heavily subsidised

Fred99

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#1400778 6-Oct-2015 10:39

Benoire: Do we know yet if produce and meat does not have to show its origin on the label any more? That was one of the 'requests' in the agreement from what I read, but I don't know the outcome. I hope not as I want to know where my food has been produced, how it is produced etc.

I'm still sceptical about this as I do not know enough and the information I had read wasn't good reading, despite my dislike of Key I do hope he hasn't sold the Country out through concessions. I'm also concerned about two aspects; 1) pharmac will cost more but great its not the user of the medicine that will pay more... No it is the public as taxpayers so despite what has been said medicines WILL cost more in general to NZ and 2) the $2.7B is quoted as being in place in 2030 which was when the US/Japan tariffs expired... Does that mean their tariffs still exist and our dairy products won't get a look in until that time? Are we likely to be flooded with non-origin labelled products from overseas, that may OR may not be inferior?

As has been said before until we get access to the full text we won't truly know whether this is good OR bad for us, but I'm just not so optimistic seeing some of the documents when they where leaked...

AFAIK, produce doesn't need COA labeling anyway, but Countdown supermarkets (Foodstuffs too?) put COA labeling on voluntarily.

Benoire

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#1400808 6-Oct-2015 10:50

Fred99:

AFAIK, produce doesn't need COA labeling anyway, but Countdown supermarkets (Foodstuffs too?) put COA labeling on voluntarily.

I know, but I had read that the TPP 'had' mandated that the country of origin was now NOT allowed to be placed, thereby meaning you had no idea if it was NZ produced or not, so that even companies that where doing it out of goodwill would not be allowed to... As I've said, we haven't seen the final list of ins/outs so all of this is conjecture and based on previous understandings.

nakedmolerat

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#1400837 6-Oct-2015 11:05

I am no economist, but have great interest in politics.

In the scale of things, the savings are not that great. However, most of the estimate did NOT take into account the influx/cheaper items that is likely to come in and ultimately replace the local economy.

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grant_k

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#1400865 6-Oct-2015 11:19

Hmmm, I wonder what this is likely to mean in practice:

New Zealand will also provide greater rights to performers of copyright works such as musicians and actors.
Apart from these two changes, TPP does not affect what is or isn’t subject to copyright. New Zealand will maintain its current copyright exceptions and will not be prohibited from adopting new ones in the future. In addition, New Zealand will not be prevented from undertaking a review of its copyright laws.
New Zealand has, however, agreed to extend its existing laws on technological protection measures (TPMs), which control access to digital content like music, TV programmes, films and software. Circumventing TPMs will be prohibited but exceptions will apply to ensure that people can still circumvent them where there is no copyright issue (for example, playing region-coded DVDs purchased from overseas) or where there is an existing copyright exception (for example, converting a book to braille).

Taken from this document just released by the govt. Wasn't it already against the law to circumvent TPMs?

Behodar

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#1400881 6-Oct-2015 11:30

That document doesn't seem to explain what has changed around TPMs. I believe that it's already legal to circumvent TPMs when there is no copyright issue; for example ripping DVDs for personal use, so I'm not sure what the "extensions" are.

Pity about copyright extending to 70 years; if anything we should be reducing it.

Fred99

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#1400885 6-Oct-2015 11:35

Benoire:
Fred99:

AFAIK, produce doesn't need COA labeling anyway, but Countdown supermarkets (Foodstuffs too?) put COA labeling on voluntarily.

I know, but I had read that the TPP 'had' mandated that the country of origin was now NOT allowed to be placed, thereby meaning you had no idea if it was NZ produced or not, so that even companies that where doing it out of goodwill would not be allowed to... As I've said, we haven't seen the final list of ins/outs so all of this is conjecture and based on previous understandings.

That would be impossible. I suggest that if there's a change, then it might be at the level of not allowing mandatory COA labeling - but not banning voluntary COA labeling.
Would you buy a bottle of wine, an oyster, or a block of cheese without some COA information? I wouldn't.

Behodar

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#1400905 6-Oct-2015 11:38

On the topic of wine it wouldn't even work, since the brand name of many wines is the name of where they're produced. If naming the origin was prohibited then they'd all need to change their brand names!

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