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Handle9
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  #3272627 16-Aug-2024 17:11
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tweake:

 

Handle9:

 

It's impractical to test and therefore almost unenforceable. It smells of one of those laws that sound good on paper but aren't practical to implement.

 

If it was a massive problem it'd likely get some attention.

 

 

not hard to change or enforce.

 

change it so you have to obey the car manufactures limits and have the correct tow bar for those limits. for enforcement, simply weigh the trailer. thats far easier to do than the "stopping within a distance of seven metres from a speed of 30km/h.". as almost no car/ute has above 700kg unbraked tow limits, and a double axle trailer is ~500kg unloaded, pretty much every trailer bar tiny trailers would require brakes. that makes visual inspection really simple.

 

it also makes for easy to comply as everyone can look up whats required.

 

 

The current law is impossible to enforce. If they changed it they aren't going to change it to make every trailer currently on the road illegal. That would be impractical and largely be ignored.

 

 




pdh

pdh
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  #3272628 16-Aug-2024 17:14
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As several people have said - our Transport regs/laws (on safe trailer use) seem to be poorly/confusingly written and rooted a bit too deeply in the past.

 

Our love for overrun (surge) trailer brakes is very 1940's. The electric brakes on my Canadian 2008 Bigfoot trailer (GVWR 3400 kg) could be modulated beautifully via the 2015 RAM's factory-built-in electric brake controller. (The harder I pushed on the brake pedal, the more the trailer brakes were applied.) Those brakes (alone) would halt the truck and trailer - if I used the slider on the dash to test them - with no touch on the truck's brake pedal. It was an every-morning, 2-second, safety check... hook-up, drive away, brake-test - good-to-go.

 

That was (now) 20-year ago technology.

 

   >loop hole in the law thats over due to be closed.

 

   >I bet it has been looked at and is sitting in the too-hard basket 

 

If we were interested in improving our trailer safety, we could borrow some ideas and regs... 

 

ie: from Australia:
"Electronic brakes are most commonly used on caravans and trailers over 750kg and are legally required on all caravans and trailers where the GTM is more than 2000kg."

 

As an added bonus, the last few years has seen this tech augmented to apply differential braking to combat sway (and of course lock-up / skid). Try that with inertia brakes ;-)

 

 


  #3272630 16-Aug-2024 17:21
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@tweake how do you measue the trailer weight when its attached to the vehicle?




tweake
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  #3272632 16-Aug-2024 17:29
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Handle9:

 

The current law is impossible to enforce. If they changed it they aren't going to change it to make every trailer currently on the road illegal. That would be impractical and largely be ignored.

 

 

the old we can't fix it because we have been getting away with dodgy stuff since ages ago. sounds like kiwi houses.

 

they can simply do it in stages over many years/decades. eg put brakes on 2000kg trailers today, put brakes on 1500kg trailers tomorrow, then 1000kg trailers etc. not hard to do.


tweake
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  #3272633 16-Aug-2024 17:30
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Jase2985:

 

@tweake how do you measure the trailer weight when its attached to the vehicle?

 

i understand they already have scale setups that can do that. worse possible case, unhook it from the vehicle, it takes all of 30 seconds.


Handle9
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  #3272635 16-Aug-2024 17:34
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tweake:

 

Handle9:

 

The current law is impossible to enforce. If they changed it they aren't going to change it to make every trailer currently on the road illegal. That would be impractical and largely be ignored.

 

 

the old we can't fix it because we have been getting away with dodgy stuff since ages ago. sounds like kiwi houses.

 

they can simply do it in stages over many years/decades. eg put brakes on 2000kg trailers today, put brakes on 1500kg trailers tomorrow, then 1000kg trailers etc. not hard to do.

 

 

What's the actual problem you are trying to solve by making every trailer illegal? Are the outcomes from the current situation actually so poor?

 

Just because you can make things better at a significant cost in money and compliance effort doesn't necessarily mean it's worth doing.


tweake
2391 posts

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  #3272636 16-Aug-2024 17:34
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pdh:

 

As several people have said - our Transport regs/laws (on safe trailer use) seem to be poorly/confusingly written and rooted a bit too deeply in the past.

 

Our love for overrun (surge) trailer brakes is very 1940's. The electric brakes on my Canadian 2008 Bigfoot trailer (GVWR 3400 kg) could be modulated beautifully via the 2015 RAM's factory-built-in electric brake controller. (The harder I pushed on the brake pedal, the more the trailer brakes were applied.) Those brakes (alone) would halt the truck and trailer - if I used the slider on the dash to test them - with no touch on the truck's brake pedal. It was an every-morning, 2-second, safety check... hook-up, drive away, brake-test - good-to-go.

 

That was (now) 20-year ago technology.

 

   >loop hole in the law thats over due to be closed.

 

   >I bet it has been looked at and is sitting in the too-hard basket 

 

If we were interested in improving our trailer safety, we could borrow some ideas and regs... 

 

ie: from Australia:
"Electronic brakes are most commonly used on caravans and trailers over 750kg and are legally required on all caravans and trailers where the GTM is more than 2000kg."

 

As an added bonus, the last few years has seen this tech augmented to apply differential braking to combat sway (and of course lock-up / skid). Try that with inertia brakes ;-)

 

 

 

 

add to that, you can also get trailer stability control and abs braking. i think even the ranger has/had electronic trailer control built in.

 

but overrun brakes work ok, if setup properly. there is some downsides to them. but biggest issue is NZ mostly has the old antiquated spring type rather than the shock absorber type which is very common in uk/euro/usa.


 
 
 

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.
tweake
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  #3272638 16-Aug-2024 17:40
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Handle9:

 

 Are the outcomes from the current situation actually so poor?

 

 

simply yes.

 

you only hear about the few fatal's, but there is huge amounts of accidents behind the scenes. i know of more people who have had trailer incidents than car crashes.

 

also the growing problem is the average tow vehicle is a whole lot faster than even 20 years ago. the saving grace was people drove slow with trailers, thats becoming less and less. 


  #3272639 16-Aug-2024 17:41
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tweake:

 

Jase2985:

 

@tweake how do you measure the trailer weight when its attached to the vehicle?

 

i understand they already have scale setups that can do that. worse possible case, unhook it from the vehicle, it takes all of 30 seconds.

 

 

can they make you unhook from the vehicle though?


Handle9
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  #3272640 16-Aug-2024 17:42
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tweake:

 

Handle9:

 

 Are the outcomes from the current situation actually so poor?

 

 

simply yes.

 

you only hear about the few fatal's, but there is huge amounts of accidents behind the scenes. i know of more people who have had trailer incidents than car crashes.

 

also the growing problem is the average tow vehicle is a whole lot faster than even 20 years ago. the saving grace was people drove slow with trailers, thats becoming less and less. 

 

 

Have you got statistics to demonstrate this problem? Anecdotia isn't proof of a problem.


tweake
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  #3272642 16-Aug-2024 17:44
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Jase2985:

 

can they make you unhook from the vehicle though?

 

 

if not, easy enough to ad that into law. don't really see the issue. lets face it they are only ever going to look if its obviously over weight.


tweake
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  #3272643 16-Aug-2024 17:47
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Handle9:

 

Have you got statistics to demonstrate this problem? Anecdotia isn't proof of a problem.

 

 

<groan>

 

here we go again demand stats on something that has no stats. at best look up insurance data but even then many won't be on it.


Handle9
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  #3272644 16-Aug-2024 17:49
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tweake:

 

Handle9:

 

Have you got statistics to demonstrate this problem? Anecdotia isn't proof of a problem.

 

 

<groan>

 

here we go again demand stats on something that has no stats. at best look up insurance data but even then many won't be on it.

 

 

So the reason to make every trailer illegal is "trust me bro, I knows things."

 

 

 

 


  #3272646 16-Aug-2024 17:51
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tweake:

 

Handle9:

 

Have you got statistics to demonstrate this problem? Anecdotia isn't proof of a problem.

 

 

<groan>

 

here we go again demand stats on something that has no stats. at best look up insurance data but even then many won't be on it.

 

 

but thats how the burden of proof works, you can say something but to be credible you need to be able to back it up with evidence, without that its just baseless claims.


Handle9
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  #3272647 16-Aug-2024 17:55
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Jase2985:

 

tweake:

 

<groan>

 

here we go again demand stats on something that has no stats. at best look up insurance data but even then many won't be on it.

 

 

but thats how the burden of proof works, you can say something but to be credible you need to be able to back it up with evidence, without that its just baseless claims.

 

 

I have no idea whether or not it's really a big problem or more of a case of the current situation is imperfect but probably good enough. I'd like to see some evidence either way.

 

One thing that isn't going to make me support introducing a huge change to the status quo is anecdotia from someone on the internet with no further evidence.


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