Towing 3500kg caravan

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Airl

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#315759 13-Aug-2024 23:28

I know. Toyota Land Cruiser 300.

But my budget is 30k and the only one around is from 1987 and has a million+km.

Thinking about the Touareg. Anyone have advice or experience?

It’s 4*4,, 4L, v8, diesel.

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#3271264 14-Aug-2024 04:49

My parents are using a 4x2 Ford Ranger. They have been towing for about 3 years without many issues. They live out of it full-time and travel the country in it. It's done about 20,000km of towing, and 60,000km total since they have had it. They have replaced the shocks in the back as they wore out, but that's about it.

Been stuck a couple of times on unexpectedly soft grass but a 4x4 would have struggled too.

Handle9

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#3271266 14-Aug-2024 05:33

The towball download seems like a significant problem. While it’s got a maximum tow capacity of 3500kg it’s got a maximum tow ball download of 260kg-280kg.

Aside from the specs I’d be extremely hesitant to put 3500kg behind a 2 ton car.

Scott3

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#3271337 14-Aug-2024 10:05

The main issues you run into when running the numbers on towing 3500kg:

GCM limits on the common Thai built Utes of 6000 kg (other than the new ranger & amarok where the v6 get's 6400kg)
Class 1 license combined weight limit of 6000 kg
General ratio of tow vehicle weight to trailer weight.

If we take a $100k+ Landcruiser 300, you get a 2580kg Kerb weight & 6,750kg GCM. Add a 3500kg trailer and even without any payload in the cruiser, you require a class 2 drivers license. A great option if you are willing to get that (and fork out the money.

If we take a 2017 Ranger 4x4 (6000kg GCM, 2250kg Tare), and you hook up a 3500kg trailer, your remaining payload in the tow vehicle is dropped to 250kg (and you would want most / all of that in the cab, not the tray), but you can stay under class 1 license limits. But you are now towing a very heavy trailer relative to the tow vehicle weight. Dropping to a 2wd one will save a little weight in the vehicle, meaning a little additional payload while staying under 6000kg.

Big question here is if you are willing to get a class 2 license, or want to stick with class 1.

The general answer to a cheaper car that can tow 3,500kg is a thai built ute. Of the era your budget is going to put you in, ranger has the rear axle furthest back, so is generally favored, Hilux is kinda in the middle, and triton is the furthest forward (avoid for this application). But utes are regarded as not ideal due to the long rear overhang.

In SUV's, a Landcruiser 200 would be my first pick, but they hold their value very well. Here is a 2008 with 400,000km asking $42k. Yes it is well over budget, but depreciation is lower than euro / American alternatives

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/toyota/land-cruiser/listing/4860562950

Other (Older, Cheaper) 3500kg towing SUV's

Ssangyong rexton

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Range Rover

Touareg

Can't comment on the Touareg sorry

johno1234

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#3271349 14-Aug-2024 10:31

3500kg sounds extremely heavy for a caravan. Is that 'van full of bricks or just enormous? I would take it to a weighbridge and find out.

Scott3

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#3271360 14-Aug-2024 11:08

johno1234:

3500kg sounds extremely heavy for a caravan. Is that 'van full of bricks or just enormous? I would take it to a weighbridge and find out.

it's heavy for sure, but still fairly mainstream.

Larger aussie and USA caravans do tend to get close to the NZ max light trailer weight of 3500kg. Euro & UK stuff tends to be a bit lighter.

As an example, the below is 2864kg empty, 3500kg loaded.

Given it takes 254kg of clean water, that only leaves 382kg for the remaining payload (gas bottles, food, clothes, food, activities, crookery, pots & pans etc), so it is feasible one might want to use the full laden weight.

gallery carousel 16

www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/caravans-motorhomes/caravans/21-24-ft/listing/4431059900

Jase2985

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#3271363 14-Aug-2024 11:15

johno1234:

3500kg sounds extremely heavy for a caravan. Is that 'van full of bricks or just enormous? I would take it to a weighbridge and find out.

Something like the below is about 2784kg(tare). add all your stuff on the inside, batteries, gas bottles, food, clothes, kitchen stuff etc. and the weight gets up.

MartinGZ

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#3271366 14-Aug-2024 11:18

Read what @Scott3 wrote and then read it again a few times more. Everything he says is correct.

Touareg? No. Just No. They are a car and not really designed for the heavy towing you are talking about. As you know, the Landcruiser is the recognised best option, but the Ranger is the next best bet.

My combination is a Ranger 4WD and ATM 2755 kg caravan. Never believe the weights stated by the caravan manufacturer. The spec for my van stated a tow ball mass of 175 kg, it was plated as 192 kg, and is measured at 225 kg with gas but no water, and 310 kg packed with gas and full water tanks. And we are fairly light travellers, with no heavy items in the van. The Ranger tow ball mass Max is 350 kg so within spec. The Touareg would be way out of spec and you are talking about an even heavier caravan.

Class 2 licence. As Scott says, you will absolutely need a Class 2 if you are looking at that size van. People keep their head in the sand on this one (too many commercial interests at play), but if you want a long read, check this thread out Class 2 licence needed when towing caravan - nzmotorhome.co.nz.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

johno1234

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#3271371 14-Aug-2024 11:46

MartinGZ:

Read what @Scott3 wrote and then read it again a few times more. Everything he says is correct.

Touareg? No. Just No. They are a car and not really designed for the heavy towing you are talking about. As you know, the Landcruiser is the recognised best option, but the Ranger is the next best bet.

My combination is a Ranger 4WD and ATM 2755 kg caravan. Never believe the weights stated by the caravan manufacturer. The spec for my van stated a tow ball mass of 175 kg, it was plated as 192 kg, and is measured at 225 kg with gas but no water, and 310 kg packed with gas and full water tanks. And we are fairly light travellers, with no heavy items in the van. The Ranger tow ball mass Max is 350 kg so within spec. The Touareg would be way out of spec and you are talking about an even heavier caravan.

Class 2 licence. As Scott says, you will absolutely need a Class 2 if you are looking at that size van. People keep their head in the sand on this one (too many commercial interests at play), but if you want a long read, check this thread out Class 2 licence needed when towing caravan - nzmotorhome.co.nz.

I have a Touareg and it is a superb tow vehicle as long as you stick within the limits.

Touareg manufacturer tow spec is 3500kg braked but only 260Kg ball weight. There's a good towing review with the key numbers here:

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/volkswagen-touareg-2023-tow-test-140996/

I've owned Landcruiser. I couldn't say it towed better than the Touareg for me as I never got above 2500kg which neither both cars barely noticed but as soon as you got off the tarmac the Toyota was night and day better. The Touareg 4WD system is designed for the road but the Toyota is designed for everything.

I would personally go for the Touareg every time as it is so much nicer to drive but I only need to tow 2500kg max and not offroad.

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#3271373 14-Aug-2024 12:05

Are there other cheaper utes that tow 3.5T that is not a ranger?

Scott3

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#3271375 14-Aug-2024 12:25

Batman: Are there other cheaper utes that tow 3.5T that is not a ranger?

In the ~2016 - 2018 era where OP's budget lands, the vast majority of the thai built utes have 3500kg tow ratings & 6000 kg GVM's, so yeah, any would do & all run into the same issue with the 6000kg GVM, and being a relatively light tow vehicle with a heavy trailer.

For utes of this era:

The ranger's rear axle is ~ 100mm further back than that of a hilux, so the ranger gets a longer wheelbase & shorter rear overhang. This is good for dynamic stability, and weight distribution with heavy ball downforce. Hence why the ranger from this era is normally favored for this application.

Triton's rear axle is ~ 100mm further forward than that of a hilux. Good for turning circuit & weight distribution when empty, but worse for stability & weight distribution with a big townball ball down force.

So yeah, other utes can work, but generally the ranger is the pick of the thai built utes for this application from this era.

Senecio

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#3271406 14-Aug-2024 13:57

I wouldn't go anywhere near a 3,500kg caravan with anything less than a Landcruiser or dare I say it, a mid to full sized American truck (F150, Siverado, Ram etc.....).

John19612

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#3271519 14-Aug-2024 14:44

Senecio:

I wouldn't go anywhere near a 3,500kg caravan with anything less than a Landcruiser or dare I say it, a mid to full sized American truck (F150, Siverado, Ram etc.....).

100% correct. Anyone saying otherwise is a danger to themselves and other road users. 3.5T is just far too much mass to push around a typical NZ ute. I'm towing a 2.8T caravan with a 2021 SR5 Cruiser Hilux and that's about as much as any responsible person should tow.

Loismustdye

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#3271530 14-Aug-2024 15:46

A friend of my parents (loaded) has a huge 3+T caravan as well as a coup”e of very large boats they use on the regular. He went from a land cruiser prado ($100k+) to a large American truck (RAM or similar) to tow them all. This was from a safety standpoint and the fact that even the prado didn’t feel safe to them.

at the risk of sounding judgemental if your limit for a 3.5T caravan tow vehicle is $30k then perhaps the caravan needs to be downsized, because realistically there isn’t much that can do what you ask for that amount of $$. A quick and dirty trademe search shows big vans in that range are in the $100k bracket, I’d downgrade the van and spend some extra on the tow vehicle for a bunch of reasons including safety and reliability

pdh

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#3271591 14-Aug-2024 17:01

I agree that Scott3 is giving you good info.

I've towed a 3500 kg caravan 70,000 km - but in Canada & the US, where I could use a RAM 2500.
That RAM has a tow rating of 7700 kg - so the truck really didn't care the caravan was there.
Note that 3500 kg is quite a small caravan by NA standards - the RAM's tow capability is there for a reason.
I could write a book about it...

Capability for Tow-Ball load is usually harder to achieve than trailer weight.
Get that wrong and you wind up with high-speed wobbles and really nasty loss-of-control accidents.
On undivided highways like ours - those will kill you and others.
Please don't go there.

Here in NZ, I've driven a Rexton for the last 6 years - bought and used for a house-building project towing diggers and lots of sand, builders mix, timber, etc. It's worked hard and well and has the bonus of a low-range box and switchable 4WD. It's not a sophisticated highway tourer (like the Toureg) but it's a much better workhorse and much cheaper to keep on the road. In the UK, it's beloved for hauling horse trailers - less expensively than a Land Cruiser/Rover. I think it would do well with a caravan - but at 3200 kg it's at the limit.

Mehrts

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#3271594 14-Aug-2024 17:17

I'd want a hefty unit to tow 3.5T. Something like a larger RAM or equivalent. Hell, even something in Class 2 truck territory. And that's purely for the weight & stability.

You don't want a situation where the tail is wagging the dog.

Sure lighter weight vehicles will be able to drag the thing around, but will they be doing it safely and efficiently?

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