New House Build. Help/Suggestions please(HVAC, Cinema, Electrics, Cladding, Timber etc)

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › New House Build. Help/Suggestions please(HVAC, Cinema, Electrics, Cladding, Timber etc)

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#1332387 26-Jun-2015 21:09

Will contact http://www.fantechhhv.co.nz/pages/home.asp for HRV ventilation system and pricing. Got it down to these guys or Cleanaire. What about a heatpump solution? Heating might not be an issue with double glazed windows with thermal break, argon gas and good insulation but it does get hot in summers in Hamilton and we use our current heat pump in summers a bit. Ducted or splits? I suspect splits because ducted will prob be impossible to install in first floor ceiling and almost impossible in ground floor ceiling/joist?

In regards to removing the wall between kitchen and family, where can i place the TV in family room once it's gone? I had a small 1.8M wall previously in the plans which did not touch the ceiling wall that you can currently see between dining and living area which is where living room tv will be as well but removed it between family and dining so it looks spacious and anyone sitting on dining table can talk to people in family. I thought of placing the TV in corner in the small wall between family and kitchen but that will be gone too with the wall remove. Any ideas?

Ground floor will be 2.7M. I was going to go with 2.55mm on first floor but will drop this to 2.4M so the ground floor ceiling/joist to first floor can be taller for ducting/cables etc.

Cannot build a concrete cinema room because even the best of sound treatment will fail. It is almost impossible to dampen the sound once it leaves concrete if it does leave and echo within the room will be crazy if sound treatment fails.

Any brand/company recommendations on hydronic floor heating? If I get underfloor heating then what about cooling? Will look into slab edge insulation which I assume is done when concrete is being laid on the ground? so is Rib Raft worth the extra $3k or go with thick slab on a standard concrete install in ground? Any good links for slab edge insulation?

What sort of lighting style/fittings should I go for if not downlights? I can go with LED downlights in cinema since it will be in sofitts anyway but what about rest of house?

Will be avoiding windows live W18 and W13 in south facing bedrooms but will get tall ground to 3/4 ceiling window on left and right side of beds. Need windows for fresh air/ventilation in summer and also fresh sun. Going with blinds which in my personal opinion will make the house look spacier and make the big size windows stand out when blinds are up. In regards to the big windows, going with 2 x frames in big windows in northern facing windows in family, dining and living. There will be 3 windows but only 2 will open and 1 will be fixed. You can see what I mean in the below video between the 30 seconds and 38 seconds mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Nn58Qx4fQ

How can I get natural lights in hallways in a double storey house? The front entrance door/space above it is empty with a big window so hoping the sunlight will cover most of the main hallway.

Thanks folks for the help, suggestions and recommendations. Keep them coming please. I have already picked up many important changes and tips from this thread.

Do whatever you want to do man.

billgates

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#1332388 26-Jun-2015 21:12

Mark: Nice!

Do have one question, the cinema, I'd have thought you might have trouble getting that approved as it only has a single exit ... house on fire you are in your double doored/insulated cinema how do you get out ?

I have been told that it just needs some sort of ventilation, maybe a smoke alarm.

Do whatever you want to do man.

Disrespective

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#1332393 26-Jun-2015 21:24

I think you will just want to look at IC (Insulated and Covered) rated LED downlights. They allow for insulation to be over the top of the LED's so no gaps in the insulation. The LED drivers are a different thing though, so make sure you can allow for those to be above the insulation if required.

billgates

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#1332394 26-Jun-2015 21:35

240V or 12V lights? I suppose 240V will be easy to change myself considering it will be a screw in and no adaptors to worry about being hidden in a non reachable ceiling cavity once house is built?

Do whatever you want to do man.

bfginger

1267 posts

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#1332404 26-Jun-2015 21:55

The corridor along the bottom of the cinema area doesn't look necessary. The area between the cinema and the bedroom could be turned into a wardrobe and the present wardrobe and adjacent corridor area could be turned into a storage area or guest bedroom. I'm sure it could still be soundproofed enough with the right measures. Some internal insulation products are specifically designed to block noise.

The two downstairs bedrooms I would want to extend out to 4m or 4.2m if it didn't cost too much to do so. Small extra amounts of space in bedrooms really count.

The wall between the downstairs "Family 4.5 x 4.5" area and the kitchen looks unnecessary. I know someone who built a house like that and actually pulled the wall out later on. My suggestion would be an internal sliding partition or partitions so the kitchen and "gallery" can be integrated or separated from the family area at will.

A black roof will become very hot in summer. Don't have one as you will pay for it in cooling costs.

The white exterior should have a slight colour tint or else the dirt will show up.

I wouldn't have ceiling to floor windows in the garage as they show what's inside and make it more tempting for someone to break in.

The bedroom windows facing the road could do with sound control glazing if it has traffic.

The large area of unshaded north-facing glass is going to put huge amounts of heat into the house during the day. With a good ventilation system that shouldn't matter too much in winter but the sun is going to be harsh in summer. If the house isn't going to be built at a right angle to the sun with eves shading it would help to have shutters, rollers or motorised awnings on the north-facing windows to keep the heat and glare from entering. There are glass options to reduce solar heat gain but that impacts on winter warmth and may make the glass less transparent.

Stairs with gaps are dangerous for elderly and small children.

You could use a gas cooktop if induction is going to cost so much for three phase.

There are types of downlights that are specified to allow insulation to be installed over the top of them. I'd never want the ones that can't have insulation over them under a ceiling.

Have you considered Mammoth insulation?

Mammoth isn't the only brand of polyester insulation, there are several manufacturers including Autex, Textile Products, Ellis Fibre and Insulpro. Mammoth is Insulpro who also sells under the Novatherm name. They do have an R4.0 product.
Ceiling insulation is available in segments that go between joists or blankets that go over. Blankets are more effective as they cover over the joists which are about R1.4 but they are difficult to deal with for access and storage (imagine putting a foot through the ceiling), and stop working properly whenever a gap opens between the pieces. If you want lots of insulation the ideal would be for segments between the joists, flush with the top of them and blankets over the top but that would be expensive.
Polyester doesn't have the glass dust problems of fibreglass. Most middlemen put huge markups on polyester so you have to be careful who you buy it from. Polyester insulation factories should be willing to produce custom sized products for you and may sell direct.

Edit, I didn't see your new post before I posted. I think cooling would be a much bigger issue than heating. A house with so much sun and insulated windows should need little heating but getting the right kind of HVAC system would be important for distributing heat between different parts of the house and cooling the place. Heat rises so the upstairs would be much warmer than the ground floor unless there is HVAC or a doored stairwell.

floydie

474 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1332542 27-Jun-2015 10:00

i would stay away from an hrv and just get hvac. the cost of most hrv is ridiculous for what they do.

you are going to be spending a HEAP load of money.
dont let the design of the house comprimise the basic functions you require like the running of basic tech features wiring and heating.
Have you lived in a high ceiling mono pitch house before? they echo the sheet out of sound and the rain noise will drive you mental. trust me i know.

not trying to be negative but what you are trying to acheive with that design WILL mean a lot of variations and extra time as the builders hit "snags" as they try to work stuff out . ive wired a few houses similar and getting pipework/wiring/drains all in there and try to maintain the noise/heat insulation etc is a nightmare

when designing a house of this spec you almost need to take a commercial building slant on design allowing for services in voids and spaces. you only get ONE shot at putting the services in dont be caught out by not having them just because you want to keep a design feature.

DarthKermit

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#1332543 27-Jun-2015 10:11

I think it's a good idea to have isolation valves for all sinks, basins, dishwashers, etc. I've had them installed for most things around our house. Makes it a lot easier than having to turn off the water at the road if there's a faulty tap.

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billgates

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#1332563 27-Jun-2015 11:21

With Coloursteel endura metal roof in a mono pitched design, I expect the ground floor to hear no rain noise at all considering the heavy insulation in first floor ceiling then insulation in the ground floor ceiling/joist to first floor. How loud will it be for first floor occupants? Me and wife have the master bedroom upstairs with no kids (the 2 small bedrooms upstairs are for them). If it is going to be noisey on first floor then what is the solution to overcome that issue?

Good tip on the Isolation valve. Thank you.

Have now confirmed slab edge insulation (MaxRaft seems to be good? and they have a concrete first floor solution as well which can greatly help me with sound isolation from cinema in ground floor though I did have an alternate solution to fix that problem with the use of hats/channel), removal of wall between family and kitchen (I need to find a place for TV though in family room) and hydronic heating though If I am going to install heat pumps for cooling then it's waste of $$$ of on extra hydronic heating? Also removing windows above the bedrooms in ground floor as mention earlier and will place long side windows to both sides of the bed.

From what I have read a good HRV system like Fantech or CleanAire go well with ducted heatpumps/splits. I certainly needs a fresh air intake/outtake in cinema. Also confirmed IC downlights. Which one's though 240V or 12V?

With hydronic heating, will it be gas powered? If so, now strongly considering dropping induction cooktop and getting gas cooktop which is what the wife wanted anyway to begin with but my male ego and new tech induction fubrar better than gas kicked in and decided on that. We are looking at getting the laminated timber for flooring so will hydronic heating underneath the concrete which will then transfer heat to this laminated timber, ruin or damage the timber in long run?

Edit - Been reading up on Hydronic heating and the cons are quite the cons. Pulled the below from smartherhomes.org.nz website. The 4 big cons for me are below. Cinema will have carpet. Is it going to damage the carpet and will it provide enough heat over the carpet in cinema room? I don't want to be leaving the heat on 24/7.

Below is the company I have found for Hydronic heating and slab edge insultation. Any good?

http://www.ecomaster.kiwi.nz/home-environment-mastery-hydramaster.html

http://www.maxraft.co.nz/maxraft/

Although fairly maintenance free, repairs can be expensive if something does go wrong - you may have to rip up the floor.
With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting.
Not very responsive – takes time for the heat to build up.
Carpeting over a heated floor will trap heat under-floor so it doesn’t warm the house.

Underfloor heating Underfloor heating can be embedded in a concrete slab when you build a new home or laid under the flooring of a new or existing home. The floor needs to be well insulated underneath or you will lose most of your heat. Underfloor heating can use electric cables or water-filled pipes. The pipes may use any form of water heating including electricity, gas, heat pump or solar. These are called hydronic systems. Underfloor heating cannot heat a room quickly and is best used if you are home most of the time. A lot of energy is used to heat the floor, especially a concrete slab. But once the floor is heated, it acts as a low temperature radiator. With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting. Good for:

If the homeowner is always at home.
Houses with very good under-floor insulation.

Pros:

A range of fuel types possible (e.g. electric, gas, diesel).
Controllable with thermostat and timer settings (some with room-by-room control).

Cons:

Not possible to retrofit to existing homes without substantial renovation.
Although fairly maintenance free, repairs can be expensive if something does go wrong - you may have to rip up the floor.
With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting.
Solar hydronic systems are complex and expensive to install. They need to be installed as a house is being built and you will need back up heating when the sun doesn’t shine.
Not very responsive – takes time for the heat to build up.
Carpeting over a heated floor will trap heat under-floor so it doesn’t warm the house.

Do whatever you want to do man.

billgates

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#1332575 27-Jun-2015 12:54

I have uploaded the electrical component quotation in 2nd post of this thread that my builder provided to me in their estimate that they received directly from their sparky. $26k. I feel that it is very high. It's me supplying the LED lights/all lights in that quotation. It excludes any data cabling, data ports, speaker cabling and 7.2CH wall plates/In ceiling speaker setups. This quote only includes electrical cabling/install and 75 power points including gang boxes.

Do whatever you want to do man.

floydie

474 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1332583 27-Jun-2015 13:51

so our electrical for our build was something like $110 per LED down light and $75 for a double power point. fitting owner supplied lights were $75. i cant remember the PC sum for our place but that quote for yours seems excessive as it excludes trenching etc etc.
3 phase power is more expensive to set up as it obviously needs a bigger meter board and switch board. you could just take that schedule plan and get your own quotes from hamilton sparkies (maybe have a drive around and see which sparkies are doing work for the cheaper places like signature or classic builders.

Jase2985

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#1332588 27-Jun-2015 14:40

Are you having an alarm in the house? if so why no have your smoke alarms connected to that? that way it can be monitored, and you dont have to worry about batteries.

Thats a really detailed breakdown of electrical work, except for one thing, its missing costing for each item, so you have no idea how much each thing costs to see if its a good price or not.

billgates

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#1332597 27-Jun-2015 15:19

Current house does not have an alarm. Never needed one. Not going to work tbh unless it's monitored because most neighbors don't care too much. I will get it more than likely so will go for a cabled smoke alarm with it as well. Not getting the heated towel rails. Current house has one and no on ever used it. Getting standard towel rails.

I asked the builder last week to move the house towards south boundary line as much as they can (even if it hits 1.5M boundary line) as I want as much space between the family, dining and living room block to be from the northern boundary line as possible which is where most time will be spent. Going to cut the size of 2 x Windows in garage that are full size so no body can peek in. Waiting on them to provide with this update but this will change the placement of Office with no Windows more than likely as Garage is fixed and cannot be moved further towards the southern boundary line due to 1.5M boundary line limit. I asked them to provide me with minimum 4M space on northern boundary line and family/dinining/living block distance.

In terms of Solar PV, I am not sold on ROI. Is it possible to get pre-wiring done for it? Also as you can see in the design, that the roof is pitched 3 degrees facing south. I would want most amount of panels n future on north so will it be possible to install the panels on the south pitched roof which is at 3 degrees pitch and tilt the panels towards north using install brackets?

Do whatever you want to do man.

billgates

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#1332603 27-Jun-2015 15:50

Regarding insulation so there are 3 main contenders. Knauf, Pink Batts and Mammoth/InsulPro. Mammoth's highest R value insulation for both walls and ceilings is lower than what Knauf and Pink Batts offer. I won't go with Knauf for walls due to sag issue but I don't see an issue for the ground floor ceiling joists and first floor ceiling since it will be placed horizontally. Any other advice/recommendation or suggestion for which insulation company and product?

Edit - So go with blankets as it covers the joists as well for ceilings on both floors?

Do whatever you want to do man.

akmodi

26 posts

Geek

#1332881 28-Jun-2015 10:09

billgates: With Coloursteel endura metal roof in a mono pitched design, I expect the ground floor to hear no rain noise at all considering the heavy insulation in first floor ceiling then insulation in the ground floor ceiling/joist to first floor. How loud will it be for first floor occupants? Me and wife have the master bedroom upstairs with no kids (the 2 small bedrooms upstairs are for them). If it is going to be noisey on first floor then what is the solution to overcome that issue?

Good tip on the Isolation valve. Thank you.

Have now confirmed slab edge insulation (MaxRaft seems to be good? and they have a concrete first floor solution as well which can greatly help me with sound isolation from cinema in ground floor though I did have an alternate solution to fix that problem with the use of hats/channel), removal of wall between family and kitchen (I need to find a place for TV though in family room) and hydronic heating though If I am going to install heat pumps for cooling then it's waste of $$$ of on extra hydronic heating? Also removing windows above the bedrooms in ground floor as mention earlier and will place long side windows to both sides of the bed.

From what I have read a good HRV system like Fantech or CleanAire go well with ducted heatpumps/splits. I certainly needs a fresh air intake/outtake in cinema. Also confirmed IC downlights. Which one's though 240V or 12V?

With hydronic heating, will it be gas powered? If so, now strongly considering dropping induction cooktop and getting gas cooktop which is what the wife wanted anyway to begin with but my male ego and new tech induction fubrar better than gas kicked in and decided on that. We are looking at getting the laminated timber for flooring so will hydronic heating underneath the concrete which will then transfer heat to this laminated timber, ruin or damage the timber in long run?

Edit - Been reading up on Hydronic heating and the cons are quite the cons. Pulled the below from smartherhomes.org.nz website. The 4 big cons for me are below. Cinema will have carpet. Is it going to damage the carpet and will it provide enough heat over the carpet in cinema room? I don't want to be leaving the heat on 24/7.

Below is the company I have found for Hydronic heating and slab edge insultation. Any good?

http://www.ecomaster.kiwi.nz/home-environment-mastery-hydramaster.html

http://www.maxraft.co.nz/maxraft/

Although fairly maintenance free, repairs can be expensive if something does go wrong - you may have to rip up the floor.
With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting.
Not very responsive – takes time for the heat to build up.
Carpeting over a heated floor will trap heat under-floor so it doesn’t warm the house.

Underfloor heating Underfloor heating can be embedded in a concrete slab when you build a new home or laid under the flooring of a new or existing home. The floor needs to be well insulated underneath or you will lose most of your heat. Underfloor heating can use electric cables or water-filled pipes. The pipes may use any form of water heating including electricity, gas, heat pump or solar. These are called hydronic systems. Underfloor heating cannot heat a room quickly and is best used if you are home most of the time. A lot of energy is used to heat the floor, especially a concrete slab. But once the floor is heated, it acts as a low temperature radiator. With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting. Good for:

If the homeowner is always at home.
Houses with very good under-floor insulation.
Pros:

A range of fuel types possible (e.g. electric, gas, diesel).
Controllable with thermostat and timer settings (some with room-by-room control).
Cons:

Not possible to retrofit to existing homes without substantial renovation.
Although fairly maintenance free, repairs can be expensive if something does go wrong - you may have to rip up the floor.
With hydronic systems, in cold climates you may have to leave the heating on even when no-one is home to avoid freezing and pipes bursting.
Solar hydronic systems are complex and expensive to install. They need to be installed as a house is being built and you will need back up heating when the sun doesn’t shine.
Not very responsive – takes time for the heat to build up.
Carpeting over a heated floor will trap heat under-floor so it doesn’t warm the house.

The house that I lived in the UK before moving to NZ had hydronic underfloor heating. It was brilliant/superb and the best thing ever.

You can break the heating down to two parts :

1. Heat delivery 2. heat source

Heat delivery: hydronic underfloor heating, without a doubt the best method.

They are no more expensive than a multi radiator setup and when done during the initial house build. The pipes and manifolds themselves are relatively cheap. The new systems have a wonderfully fast method of install onto the insulation -- so labor required is minimized.

Yes -- carpets are a problem -- you will need carpets that have less than 1.0 Tog rating, special underlay: Duralay heatflow. This ensures that the heat is delivered without a problem. If using wood to cover the floor, you will need engineered wood.

It was on the ground and on the upstairs and everyone commented on how wonderfully well heated it was with no hot or cold spots that occur with almost all other heating. The most important thing to do is to ensure that each "zone" had a thermal controller, as well as an overall central house temperature point. The house used to have the heating switched on 24/7 and 365 days in the year. As it was thermally switched on -- for most if the summer the heating was never on. when we went away on holiday the heat delivery system had an holiday mode -- so that it stopped supplying heat when the central temp went above 10C. This is a good idea anyway if you want to ensure that you do not come back to a house that was flooded.

Yes UK is colder than NZ -- still doesn't mean that one has to live in colder houses. You are doing a fantastic job with the house insulation. Have you considered insulated concrete build ? Your design would lend to that, will have a great overall insulation, without much effort. the build is very very fast, noise control is great as you are building with concrete. This also means that you have a great "earthquake" resistant house.

2. Heat source.

The best ground source heat pumps have a COP of around 7. Depending on the cost of 1 KJ of heat from reticulated gas vs 1 KW of electricity you may wish to compare the costs. If you are using the solar panel -- that does reduce the cost of electricity used from the mains. Heatpumps have almost no maintenance costs that the gas systems do. Nost gas systems (esp the newer ones: require replacements within 10 years). heatpumps last 25 years and more ; they are basically industrial compressors running in reverse.

Just my tuppeny thoughts

pipe60

127 posts

Master Geek

#1333047 28-Jun-2015 19:16

We will be building north of Hamilton later this year. We are doing 140 framing as well and using the R4.0 batts in the walls and R5.0 in the ceilings.

Under floor heating design was done by Waitoki engineering(Cant post links) supplied from a 850l cylinder heated by a Marshall boiler.

Currently looking in to the the UPVC option as well.

Do you mind sharing the web site for tapware?

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