2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1139 | 1140 | 1141 | 1142 | 1143 | 1144 | 1145 | 1146 | 1147 | 1148 | 1149 | ... | 2423

11203 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2644839 31-Jan-2021 19:59

I post this Aljazeera news item because they have less of an axe-to-grind than the US / UK / EU / Russia / China.

From 3 days ago.

Aljazeera: WHO team to start Wuhan COVID investigation in market, lab

A team of World Health Organization experts is due to begin field research into the origins of the coronavirus in Wuhan, where COVID-19 was first recorded in late 2019, after completing two weeks of compulsory hotel quarantine.

The team is expected to visit Huanan Market where the first people fell ill with the virus, as well as the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a nearby medical laboratory. They will also try to find out whether the virus came from a bat, like the more deadly Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) which was traced back to a cave in China’s Yunnan province.

The WHO has stressed that the investigation, which has been months in the making, is not about apportioning blame, but about understanding how the virus made the jump to humans and finding ways to prevent the emergence of similar pathogens.
...
While China managed to quell the outbreak in Wuhan with a strict lockdown and mass testing, it again finds itself facing new pockets of disease just days away from the Lunar New Year, the country’s most important holiday and when tens of millions of people usually travel home to see their families.

This year, authorities are encouraging people to stay put by offering special bonuses for those who continue to work and refunds on tickets that have already been bought. Bookings are said to have declined by 40 percent, Yu said.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29768 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644852 31-Jan-2021 20:18

kingdragonfly: I like Bill Maher for his politics.

But his views on COVID are non-mainstream. He has pushed that COVID should be called the China flu, and a lot that people are dying unnecessarily from COVID because they are obese people and out-of-shape.

However his guests got into some pretty conspiratorial ideas:

COVID didn't come from bats.

It's "90% certainty" that China manufactured the virus, and it accidently got out.
Before you watch the Youtube video, I'd strongly suggest reading this short article from the Daily Beast.

The Daily Beast: The “Real Time” host welcomed a pair of podcast hosts to push the evidence-free conspiracy theory—originated by Steve Bannon—that COVID-19 is man-made and escaped from a lab.

"So, you can either trust a comedian and a pair of culture-war-obsessed podcast hosts—who were biology professors and are not epidemiologists or virologists—or you can trust the scientific community."

Heather Heying & Bret Weinstein: The Lab Hypothesis

many people think so

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/exclusive-coronavirus-began-accident-disease-escaped-chinese/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/16/mike-pompeo-pushes-new-claim-china-hiding-virus-origin/

the diplomatic way of saying it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/scientists-examine-possibility-covid-leaked-lab-part-investigation/

Batman

Mad Scientist
29768 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644870 31-Jan-2021 20:58

quarantine free travel to Australia resumes

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/australias-suspension-of-one-way-safe-zone-flights-with-new-zealand-lifted/KLZR3KIODKPA43B6PW4CVMHOMQ/

kingdragonfly

11203 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2644872 31-Jan-2021 21:01

The uncomfortable truth arguments in the origin of COVID move quickly out of science, and into ad hominem arguments.

It's easier to understand the person than understand the epidemiology of viral diseases.

Case in point: there are Chinese mad scientists, such as this wild medical experiment.

Knowing the US and Russian spotty history of medical experiments and and nuclear testing doesn't exactly give comfort.

There are a number of coincidences that do raise some eyebrows, and the Chinese does tend to bury taking responsibility for a lot of embarrassing mistakes.

However all three of your references are from the Telegraph newspaper, which is conservative. They had an opinion piece that espoused catching the common cold would give immunity to COVID, which they did pull.

Steve Bannon is an evil master of gaslighting, so it's easy to discount his opinions.

Bill Gates foundation did say a naturally occurring virus like this was inevitable, long before COVID made an appearance.

I just don't know what to think.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29768 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644877 31-Jan-2021 21:08

kingdragonfly: I post this Aljazeera news item because they have less of an axe-to-grind than the US / UK / EU / Russia / China.

From 3 days ago.

Aljazeera: WHO team to start Wuhan COVID investigation in market, lab

A team of World Health Organization experts is due to begin field research into the origins of the coronavirus in Wuhan, where COVID-19 was first recorded in late 2019, after completing two weeks of compulsory hotel quarantine.

The team is expected to visit Huanan Market where the first people fell ill with the virus, as well as the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a nearby medical laboratory. They will also try to find out whether the virus came from a bat, like the more deadly Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) which was traced back to a cave in China’s Yunnan province.

The WHO has stressed that the investigation, which has been months in the making, is not about apportioning blame, but about understanding how the virus made the jump to humans and finding ways to prevent the emergence of similar pathogens.
...
While China managed to quell the outbreak in Wuhan with a strict lockdown and mass testing, it again finds itself facing new pockets of disease just days away from the Lunar New Year, the country’s most important holiday and when tens of millions of people usually travel home to see their families.

This year, authorities are encouraging people to stay put by offering special bonuses for those who continue to work and refunds on tickets that have already been bought. Bookings are said to have declined by 40 percent, Yu said.

there's something wrong about the timelines

bat to intermediary to human in seafood market Dec in wuhan they say

but all the positive tests in dead people worldwide before december ... it's got to have started months before december to get to these dead people in nov, if those tests were true positives

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644881 31-Jan-2021 21:13

Some people here prefer to blame a nation, rather than believe it may have come from bats, which in itself is rather ironic. Was there a similar witchhunt for the epidemic/pandemics that originated from the USA or Middle East? It may well transpire that it was human created, fortunately that wouldn't happen in the USA, or Middle east or Russia....

Best to wait for facts, rather than hope for the convenient biased blame.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29768 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644891 31-Jan-2021 21:23

kingdragonfly: The uncomfortable truth arguments in the origin of COVID move quickly out of science, and into ad hominem arguments.

It's easier to understand the person than understand the epidemiology of viral diseases.

Case in point: there are Chinese mad scientists, such as this wild medical experiment.

Knowing the US and Russian spotty history of medical experiments and and nuclear testing doesn't exactly give comfort.

There are a number of coincidences that do raise some eyebrows, and the Chinese does tend to bury taking responsibility for a lot of embarrassing mistakes.

However all three of your references are from the Telegraph newspaper, which is conservative. They had an opinion piece that espoused catching the common cold would give immunity to COVID, which they did pull.

Steve Bannon is an evil master of gaslighting, so it's easy to discount his opinions.

Bill Gates foundation did say a naturally occurring virus like this was inevitable, long before COVID made an appearance.

I just don't know what to think.

you don't understand. this is not a wild theory

number 1. in 2015 a team of virologists in USA and the Wuhan lab created/modified/engineered a new/chimeric virus from horseshoe bats to bind to human ACE receptors.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

number 2. there is another supporting reason but that was shot down by the scientific community for being too undiplomatic and the paper was exiled so i won't post it here. it is in the first telegraph article i linked so people can find it there.

however, the bottomline is that, if Donald Trump, Boris J, Putin, or any other person accidentally caused a pandemic, their reaction would not be any different, or maybe even worse?!

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Geektastic

17943 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644956 31-Jan-2021 22:37

tdgeek:
Some people here prefer to blame a nation, rather than believe it may have come from bats, which in itself is rather ironic. Was there a similar witchhunt for the epidemic/pandemics that originated from the USA or Middle East? It may well transpire that it was human created, fortunately that wouldn't happen in the USA, or Middle east or Russia....

Best to wait for facts, rather than hope for the convenient biased blame.

Eradicating bats clearly the answer then.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2644967 1-Feb-2021 00:32

tdgeek:

Batman:

Perth in lockdown

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-perth-plunged-into-lockdown-after-confirmed-case-in-community/YZ7WK4INQY3KXAQHXR46JNL2TA/

Their MIQ has 4 cases and still a leak? It goes to show that bubbles won't happen. MIQ's cannot be 100% secure so if someone wants a bubble, it can be popped by a Govt at any time, so holidays seem too risky

+ Perth appears to have had a single community case, and it can be tranced back. NZ/ Auckland/Northland didn't even go into lockdown when the same type of even occurred here. They seem ultra cautious with the virus over there compared to NZ. I think we are very lucky that it is summer, as it seems to spread far easily in winter conditions, we only have to look at the UK, for a good example of that.

I heard them spouting on again about the two way transman bubble tonight on one news. Saying that Australia reopening the border was the first step in that happening. Infuriating to watch that program now. At the moment it has all been false hope. IMO until we are all vaccinated and it is proven to actually stop the spread over time, and how well it will work moving forward, and how often we will need a vaccination, I can't see how we can open up more for a good year. I can see social distancing becoming the new norm in NZ, if we want international tourism and travel to resume as normal, if we have to end up living with this virus. It is going to be an interesting few years IMO

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2644968 1-Feb-2021 00:35

tdgeek:

Some people here prefer to blame a nation, rather than believe it may have come from bats, which in itself is rather ironic. Was there a similar witchhunt for the epidemic/pandemics that originated from the USA or Middle East? It may well transpire that it was human created, fortunately that wouldn't happen in the USA, or Middle east or Russia....

Best to wait for facts, rather than hope for the convenient biased blame.

The problem is that a lot of the evidence seems to have now gone. eg The Wuhan market which we were lead to believe was ground zero, and was able to go from animal to human. IMO it could have been cordoned off and inspected by independent WHO officials or someone else independent. But that didn't happen. So it is likely there is no evidence of where or how it occurred.

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644976 1-Feb-2021 07:23

mattwnz:

+ Perth appears to have had a single community case, and it can be tranced back. NZ/ Auckland/Northland didn't even go into lockdown when the same type of even occurred here. They seem ultra cautious with the virus over there compared to NZ. I think we are very lucky that it is summer, as it seems to spread far easily in winter conditions, we only have to look at the UK, for a good example of that.

I heard them spouting on again about the two way transman bubble tonight on one news. Saying that Australia reopening the border was the first step in that happening. Infuriating to watch that program now. At the moment it has all been false hope. IMO until we are all vaccinated and it is proven to actually stop the spread over time, and how well it will work moving forward, and how often we will need a vaccination, I can't see how we can open up more for a good year. I can see social distancing becoming the new norm in NZ, if we want international tourism and travel to resume as normal, if we have to end up living with this virus. It is going to be an interesting few years IMO

Agree. Its not the year of the vaccine (as in yay its over) its another year like 2020. Over time the points you raised will be answered, and perhaps the worst case scenario is the bi-annual Covid vaccination being the norm. Stops you being sick but doesn't last. Once the other 7.9 billion, or at least travellers are vaccinated, same deal probably. Could be worse.

I think the Perth lockdown was an overreaction. Or. they had little info on contact tracing so had to go hard.

tdgeek

29750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2644978 1-Feb-2021 07:27

mattwnz:

The problem is that a lot of the evidence seems to have now gone. eg The Wuhan market which we were lead to believe was ground zero, and was able to go from animal to human. IMO it could have been cordoned off and inspected by independent WHO officials or someone else independent. But that didn't happen. So it is likely there is no evidence of where or how it occurred.

Not unexpected as countries want to look good, or not look bad. Same deal with MERS and camels, avian flu, most of those HN flu's I think came from the USA, were there witchhunts on those as well? If viruses are in bats, camels, minks, pangolins etc, its just a matter of time

kingdragonfly

11203 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2644986 1-Feb-2021 08:17

It doesn't help that China pushes its own conspiracy theories. Wishing for transparency from China? Let's just say the US doesn't have a monopoly on stupid.

AP: China pushes conspiracy theories on COVID origin, vaccines

Chinese state media have stoked concerns about Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine, despite rigorous trials indicating it is safe.

A government spokesperson has raised the unsubstantiated theory that the coronavirus could have emerged from a U.S. military lab, giving it more credence in China....

tieke

674 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#2644987 1-Feb-2021 08:22

Batman:
...

It's "90% certainty" that China manufactured the virus, and it accidently got out.
many people think so

tdgeek:

... It may well transpire that it was human created.

I think that giving airtime to the baseless American conspiracy thories that Covid was created in a lab may be well-meaning but is extremely dangerous. As with many other current conspiracy theories it gets repeated so much that people start to believe there is something in it solely due to the number of times it comes up.

The simple answer is that the chance that the virus originated in the WIV lab is vanishingly small, and that I've never seen this claim made by anyone with scientific credibility. Rather than go straight to scientific articles, I found the best-referenced and easiest to understand explanation is this one made by James Duehr PhD, (originally posted on reddit 8 months ago, but the pdf link is easier to read).

tieke

674 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#2644989 1-Feb-2021 08:25

Also, contrary to what seems to be popularly reported, the WHO group going to Wuhan was never intending to conduct an independent forensic investigation into the origin of Covid-19: they are in China to talk to the various scientists there who have already investigated it, and collate their findings.

Despite the memes it's highly unlikely that we'd find a bat-eating Wuhan patient zero anyway: I've read a number of papers suggesting that it may have originated in East Asia where previous coronaviruses left the populations with a partial acquired immunity meaning that it didn't really spread until it reached a more vulnerable population.

1 | ... | 1139 | 1140 | 1141 | 1142 | 1143 | 1144 | 1145 | 1146 | 1147 | 1148 | 1149 | ... | 2423