2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2693027 15-Apr-2021 08:53

invisibleman18: May have missed it but has someone answered the question as to why proof of a test result is not required for MIQ employees and "yeah bro I've had a test" is enough? And why is it up to the employee to go and organise the test rather than everything being supervised?

Because they made the mistake of trusting people, then defended the system based on trust - even when it was clear there were "problems".

Ask yourself what would happen if we used a trust based system for road safety, so no speed cameras, no random breath testing, you could choose whether to ignore red lights, no risk of fines or punishment - even after your negligence caused an accident.

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#2693038 15-Apr-2021 09:16

Chris Hipkins and the Goverment just don't get it. He is now fronting RNZ saying they can't possibly have prevented this, because "Border workers don't wear ankle bracelets,".

You don't need to rely on Ankle Bracelets, you can rely on medical records and records in general. The issue is the records aren't being checked, verified and action taken accordingly.

It's undefendable. As long as they continue to claim it's within the normal for these issues to occur, they aren't going to change anything and nothing will improve. It's just dumb.

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#2693048 15-Apr-2021 09:36

I'm not saying we should abolish the privacy of MIQ workers. But at least have a way of tracking who is actually being tested that isn't "You're being tested eh m8"

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#2693072 15-Apr-2021 10:16

I just do not get this!

We are in an era of computer systems that can monitor everything. Why then can they not; conceive, write and implement a system that records and tracks all this.

I have said it before and will keep saying it:

The NZ COVID Tracer should be used not just for tracking your movements but for recording your; Testing and your Vaccine status.

Tested at this location on this date and time

Vaccinated at this location on this date and time with this batch # vaccine (1st & 2nd)

Within the App is your own QR code which testing and vaccination stations scan and this ID (name and NHI) automatically goes into the national database. So the MoH has the record and you have the record. For those without a modern phone they are given a card with the QR information embedded in it.

Those who have just entered the country and are in MIQ, upon registration must download and install the app, or even prior to entry like Australia is trying to do and on arrival at the border your initial scan automatically gives you an ID number.

Border force personal, including MIQ staff, must scan their app at the start of each shift which then would indicate their testing & vaccination status.

It is a no brainer. It is now your COVID-19 passport. AND bugger the privacy.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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#2693078 15-Apr-2021 10:22

Fred99:

I thought they had already moved to use sputum test for some routine MIQ staff testing alongside swabs How well that works depends on ability of the patient to hocker up a good sample from deep in the lungs. If "not well enough" then you'll get more false negatives - not a good outcome. If you want a more failsafe method than the way we're collecting swabs now, then bronchial lavage is probably it - but that's "unpleasant" on a whole different level.

The rapid tests being used in the UK might be ok for mitigating spread while they've got widespread CT, but not fit for purpose for NZ where continuing full containment is the goal. IOW most of the "rest of the world" has a completely different situation to deal with.

So nope. The nasopharangeal swabs / PCR test remains the "gold standard" for NZ's needs.

Criticise the failures in MIQ etc as much as you like, I'll agree with that there's been some inexcusable failures. But the methodology here in NZ is very sound - if it's adhered to.

So you're suggesting Australia have taken the wrong approach by moving to mandated daily testing for all MIQ staff earlier this year and that this is unnecessary?

Nobody denies that nasopharangeal swabs are the gold standard. It is however simply impossible to perform these tests every single day on staff at these facilities - I know multiple people who have now undertaken 30+ swabs as part of surveillance testing and both would do literally anything they could to avoid having these tests taken but accept that they're necessary.

By adding to this surveillance testing by adding daily instant or saliva testing we significantly improve the chances of catching cases much earlier, which is the exact logic Australia adopted. I'm really interested that you think this is the wrong approach to be taking (Bloomfield also thinks it's the wrong approach) when so many experts think it's exactly what we should be doing.

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#2693270 15-Apr-2021 14:13

An international perspective ...

The New York Times - Western Warnings Tarnish Vaccines the World Badly Needs

today

Amid a deep residue of mistrust, American and European cautions on the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines risk igniting anti-vaccine fervor in the global south. ...

The actions of American and European officials reverberated around the world, stoking doubts in poorer countries where a history of colonialism and unethical medical practices have left a legacy of mistrust in vaccines.

If the perception takes hold that rich countries are dumping second-rate shots on poorer nations, those suspicions could harden, slowing the worldwide rollout of desperately needed doses. ...

The Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca shots have been considered especially crucial for less developed and hard-to-reach parts of the world, because they are less expensive and easier to store than Moderna’s or Pfizer’s, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine requires just one dose. ...

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Fred99

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#2693309 15-Apr-2021 16:04

sbiddle:

By adding to this surveillance testing by adding daily instant or saliva testing we significantly improve the chances of catching cases much earlier, which is the exact logic Australia adopted. I'm really interested that you think this is the wrong approach to be taking (Bloomfield also thinks it's the wrong approach) when so many experts think it's exactly what we should be doing.

Sure they could add it, saliva PCR test. It's only about 25% sensitive in asymptomatic (incl presymptomatic) cases (vs >80% sensitivity in symptomatic cases). They're supposed to be getting a health check every day when they arrive on site, I hope that's not being given lip service.

TBH it's probably too late - if all our MIQ and front-line workers are vaccinated the chance of picking up an asymptomatic infection by daily saliva testing is going to be pretty remote.

I was thinking of the lateral flow antibody (or antigen?) self-tests being handed out in the UK, 2 per person. Probably a waste of time.

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Fred99

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#2693312 15-Apr-2021 16:07

Sideface:

If the perception takes hold that rich countries are dumping second-rate shots on poorer nations, those suspicions could harden, slowing the worldwide rollout of desperately needed doses. ...

Perception?

= reality in this case.

On a more positive note, Pfizer seems to have been able to increase production and made more vaccine available, to the US and Europe anyway.

Handle9

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#2693319 15-Apr-2021 16:28

sbiddle:

It's why we need to be moving beyond nasopharyngeal swabs for PCR testing. The rest of the world has moved on and saliva and other 15 min rapid tests are the way forward - and why countries such as the UK are issuing 2 x free tests weekly to everybody to use.

That is untrue. PCR is the only acceptable test in most of the world.

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#2693347 15-Apr-2021 17:18

Fred99:

Sure they could add it, saliva PCR test. It's only about 25% sensitive in asymptomatic (incl presymptomatic) cases (vs >80% sensitivity in symptomatic cases). They're supposed to be getting a health check every day when they arrive on site, I hope that's not being given lip service.

Thank you for those figures.

What are percentage sensitivities for nasopharyngeal swap test ??

I have a SnL who has always stated she would only have a saliva oral test due to the 'fiction' that the nasopharyngeal test hurts and can be dangerous to the recipient.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Fred99

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#2693420 15-Apr-2021 19:05

MoH state that now it's better than 95%.
Improved from a year ago, I guess because they'll run more Ct cycles on suspect cases, close contacts etc.

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#2693510 15-Apr-2021 21:02

FineWine:

Thank you for those figures.

What are percentage sensitivities for nasopharyngeal swap test ??

I have a SnS who has always stated she would only have a saliva oral test due to the 'fiction' that the nasopharyngeal test hurts and can be dangerous to the recipient.

what's a SnS ?

sbiddle

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#2693545 16-Apr-2021 07:31

Handle9:

sbiddle:

It's why we need to be moving beyond nasopharyngeal swabs for PCR testing. The rest of the world has moved on and saliva and other 15 min rapid tests are the way forward - and why countries such as the UK are issuing 2 x free tests weekly to everybody to use.

That is untrue. PCR is the only acceptable test in most of the world.

That's not quite true. Technically speaking NAAT testing is the most commonly used around the world, and RT-PCR tests are merely one of the commonly used NAAT tests.

To say that PCR test are the "only acceptible test in most of the world" doesn't really mean a lot without some context. In the US and UK for example rapid antigen tests have become very common, and I know people in both countries who are tested multiple times per week at work.

Testing has moved of a lot on the last 12 months, and rapid/antigen tests have filled a spot in the market for quick tests that aren't focused on telling you whether you might have had Covid several months ago and still have weak strains of the virus, but simply whether at this very point in time if you're infectious and likely to infect other people.

Both NAAT and rapid tests have a place in the market.

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#2693547 16-Apr-2021 07:46

Looks like the MoH are finally coming around to the idea of saliva testing for MIQ and other border workers, they've put out a RFP and a new public health order allowing saliva testing.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-less-invasive-saliva-testing-to-help-save-border-workers-nostrils/K3E3B6F5U63RJ65M766K4S3HSY/

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#2693557 16-Apr-2021 08:32

Pfizer CEO: Third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 6 - 12 months, then possibly annually

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html

“A likely scenario is that there will be likely a need for a third dose, somewhere between six and 12 months and then from there, there will be an annual revaccination, but all of that needs to be confirmed. And again, the variants will play a key role.”

A tidy new ongoing profit stream (except likely to see increasing competition, so it should not be carte blanche).

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