2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1901 | 1902 | 1903 | 1904 | 1905 | 1906 | 1907 | 1908 | 1909 | 1910 | 1911 | ... | 2422

20141 posts

Uber Geek

#2795268 14-Oct-2021 14:45

Why we must not allow COVID to become endemic in New Zealand

https://theconversation.com/why-we-must-not-allow-covid-to-become-endemic-in-new-zealand-169608

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2795271 14-Oct-2021 14:49

Buster: If Auckland had stayed at L4 the covid embers would have kept smoldering away regardless all this time and Aucklanders in general would be very agitated by now.

We arguably have the worst of all worlds now; the spread, the lockdown of in-determinant length and not much enforcement.

There is no end in sight.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2795324 14-Oct-2021 14:55

Not a lot has changed

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126681358/covid19-gatherings-in-houses-in-level-3-causing-spike-in-cases-robertson-says

Transmission in Auckland was increasing, with very few cases in work places but many from within households, some in health settings and a large number in gatherings taking place in peoples homes.

We did see this happening in alert level 4 as well, and sadly it has continued into alert level 3, Robertson said. These gatherings inside people’s homes are not allowed in alert level three, as much as they weren’t allowed under alert level 4.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2795326 14-Oct-2021 15:04

tdgeek:

Not a lot has changed

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126681358/covid19-gatherings-in-houses-in-level-3-causing-spike-in-cases-robertson-says

Transmission in Auckland was increasing, with very few cases in work places but many from within households, some in health settings and a large number in gatherings taking place in peoples homes.

We did see this happening in alert level 4 as well, and sadly it has continued into alert level 3, Robertson said. These gatherings inside people’s homes are not allowed in alert level three, as much as they weren’t allowed under alert level 4.

The only way out for Auckland is getting Vax rates up, and they only way to really do this in the short term is to start dangling carrots for those Double vaxxed..

BUT until the digital vax pass is up and running, ( November) they are totally unable to easily confirm your vax status...

SO Auckland gets stuck in limbo .... and tensions rise as those that are vaccinated are expected to continue to wait for the rest of Auckland to double vax...

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2795329 14-Oct-2021 15:14

wellygary:

The only way out for Auckland is getting Vax rates up, and they only way to really do this in the short term is to start dangling carrots for those Double vaxxed..

BUT until the digital vax pass is up and running, ( November) they are totally unable to easily confirm your vax status...

SO Auckland gets stuck in limbo .... and tensions rise as those that are vaccinated are expected to continue to wait for the rest of Auckland to double vax...

Yea. The signs so far suggested we're in for at least another month and a half of this, assuming there's no issue with the vaccine passport and assuming that we drop to L2 as soon as it's ready.

It's frustrating after all this time to be trying to read the tea leaves of our response without being able to know what is happening.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795331 14-Oct-2021 15:18

Australia have been a bit more proactive/heavy handed. How's it going over there?

cokemaster

Exited
4927 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2795339 14-Oct-2021 15:34

I think fundamentally, Auckland (and potentially the rest of Auckland) is in for a world of hurt.

Its easy to blame the government, blame the blatant rule breakers, blame the casual rule breakers, blame decades of underinvestment in health etc... but the political forum is a better place for such discussions.

What I am concerned is moving forward:

Aucklanders vaccination rates are increasing, however
Infection rates are also increasing, and
Those infections appear to be well seeded across Auckland.
In my opinion, the population of Auckland appears to be less inclined to follow public health guidelines.

My concern is that Auckland appears to be on a glidepath of being in lockdown until at least Christmas, maybe longer.

For me - the problem is not so much the tools but how we engage the public and enforce health measures to get the infections under control.

We know:

Vaccines work.
Effective lockdowns can suppress the virus.
Contact tracing can significantly aid in locating potentially exposed individuals.
Masks can also reduce the probability of being infected.

However the billion dollar question is how we can use these tools effectively? How do we engage the public? I don't have an answer but a circuitbreaker is required, otherwise we are going to be in lockdown a lot longer.

webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2795342 14-Oct-2021 15:38

cokemaster:

We know:

Vaccines work.
Effective lockdowns can suppress the virus.
Contact tracing can significantly aid in locating potentially exposed individuals.
Masks can also reduce the probability of being infected.

Just on this: There were two LOIs added at 2pm.

Were these cases all so obviously linked that there aren't a chunk of LOIs now to be added every two hours?

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2795347 14-Oct-2021 15:47

Fred99:
This was posted yesterday on Reddit. Seems plausible - it's the kind of behaviour I expect from deluded zealots:

I work at a medical centre who provide covid vaccination and today we have been flooded with fake bookings via the bookmyvaccine website with people using vulgar, offensive and racist words as the booking name.

Man, the antivax crew are the lowest of the low with this sort of behaviour.

They are taking resources away from our busy medical staff who are already run off their feet with swabbing and helping sick people to have to look at, deal with and delete all these crude bookings.

Our staff are really distressed.

Just to state the obvious - this behaviour should be reported to the police.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2795348 14-Oct-2021 15:53

cokemaster:

In my opinion, the population of Auckland appears to be less inclined to follow public health guidelines.

8 weeks in perpetual lockdown with no clear path out will do that to a population....

Its becoming clear that the "exit" framework outlined two weeks ago is going to be quietly junked very soon... and things are rapidly being devised to try fill the gap....

Case rates are rising, and I really cannot see anyway the government can stop them..

There are calls for a Level 4 circuit breaker, but the Dep PM basically said that they don't believe it would be effective as the indoor gatherings that are happening now would likely continue to happen (they are not permitted currently anyway)

The allowing of travel across Auckland for recreation was clearly a mistake, its allowing travel to happen for many other reasons....

Auckland is going to have a really crappy November, but the hope is that vax rates will be high enough in December to "bend the curve"- but where the curve is by then is anyone's guess..

arcon

423 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795349 14-Oct-2021 15:55

cokemaster:

Vaccines work.
Effective lockdowns can suppress the virus.
Contact tracing can significantly aid in locating potentially exposed individuals.
Masks can also reduce the probability of being infected.
However the billion dollar question is how we can use these tools effectively? How do we engage the public? I don't have an answer but a circuitbreaker is required, otherwise we are going to be in lockdown a lot longer.

A serious discussion on improving the situation can't happen if we're not open to improving how the government handles things - which invariably involves some level of criticism or blame for want of a better word. This doesn't have to imply that another government could to it better (which would be political and not helpful).

The messaging has not been tough enough on consequences for rule breakers where it needs to be, and is still not adapting. Sure it might not stop the hardcore bad apples but the "tarnished apples" who might be thinking about rule breaking could absolutely be dissuaded. Second time I've felt the need to talk apples today. I hate apples. Even Sav Blanc, it reminds me of apples lol.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2795350 14-Oct-2021 15:57

ezbee:

This is experience of a Doctor who was in the UK.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018814766/ryan-salter-making-difficult-decisions-about-rationing-medical-care

You lower level of care and ration that care. Other services stop, so don't have an accident get sick.
Require diagnosis or treatment for something progressive and time critical like cancer.
People of Southland may know that one well.

I'm coming to the conclusion that if health services need to be rationed during the pandemic we need to take into account vaccination status. Something along the lines of, no jab no bed, if there are other people who need those beds. I don't see why a cancer patient who is vaccinated should be bumped down the list because of a Covid patient who could have easily prevented their hospitalisation by being vaccinated.

It might sound cruel or heartless but it's no different to some parts of the world where if you don't have medical insurance your chances of medical care diminish accordingly.

Every decision or action has consequences. I don't see why one person's consequences should be the result of another person's decision to refuse protection against the virus. The consequences should be felt where their causes occur.

If you decide to not be vaccinated you also choose to not receive hospital treatment if there is a shortage of beds.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2795358 14-Oct-2021 16:13

Makes me think of the antivaxx idiots (mostly in America) who are so religiously antivaxx...and then they catch coronavirus and miraculously change their tune...then want the vaccine. Sorry bucko, the horse has long bolted by that point.

Especially this woman with her ridiculous views: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/09/anti-vaccine-extremist-who-wanted-to-catch-covid-to-prove-it-was-like-food-poisoning-says-she-s-in-so-much-pain-feels-like-she-was-hit-by-bus-after-catching-virus.html

(apologies if I posted this before). She's the last type of person I think should be assisted in a hospital. Especially when she says bs like "...just pray for me please.", yep, thoughts and prayers and all that other virtue signalling bs.

Sorry but idiots like her just make me angry, especially for the rest of us trying very hard to do our part.

panther2

374 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795359 14-Oct-2021 16:13

Technofreak:
ezbee:

This is experience of a Doctor who was in the UK.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018814766/ryan-salter-making-difficult-decisions-about-rationing-medical-care

You lower level of care and ration that care. Other services stop, so don't have an accident get sick.
Require diagnosis or treatment for something progressive and time critical like cancer.
People of Southland may know that one well.

I'm coming to the conclusion that if health services need to be rationed during the pandemic we need to take into account vaccination status. Something along the lines of, no jab no bed, if there are other people who need those beds. I don't see why a cancer patient who is vaccinated should be bumped down the list because of a Covid patient who could have easily prevented their hospitalisation by being vaccinated.

It might sound cruel or heartless but it's no different to some parts of the world where if you don't have medical insurance your chances of medical care diminish accordingly.

Every decision or action has consequences. I don't see why one person's consequences should be the result of another person's decision to refuse protection against the virus. The consequences should be felt where their causes occur.

If you decide to not be vaccinated you also choose to not receive hospital treatment if there is a shortage of beds.

Like the auckland anesthetist at ADHB said avg covid patient spends 30 days in ICU and in that time you can do 30 heart transplants....

Elective surgery wait times are going to sky rocket not to mention if there are acute cases but jo ICU beds.

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2795364 14-Oct-2021 16:27

wellygary:

The only way out for Auckland is getting Vax rates up, and they only way to really do this in the short term is to start dangling carrots for those Double vaxxed..

cokemaster:

{snip}

My concern is that Auckland appears to be on a glidepath of being in lockdown until at least Christmas, maybe longer.

For me - the problem is not so much the tools but how we engage the public and enforce health measures to get the infections under control.

Unfortunately it isn't "the public" that need to be engaged and vaccinated, it's two distinct groups within the general public: first is the group of anti-vax and/or 'my body my choice' and/or 'it's all a hoax or a plot' people; and second is the disengaged.

The first group are most unlikely to be vaccinated unless or until their friends start being hospitalised in large numbers. Frankly they're a lost cause for this campaign's purposes, they are people who will rather lose their well-paid jobs in the health and education sectors than get vaccinated. I'd guess they are only a few percent of the population anyway

The second group is the real problem. They are mostly poor, mostly brown, mostly young. A quarter of them don't have a large-screen device in their home, and those that do use it to watch Netflix etc. They don't watch the News on TV, they don't read any newspaper or visit sites like Stuff or the Herald. Any "news" content they consume is on Facebook or Instagram, possibly Twitter. If you prod them, they'll remember their Aunty had a thing called a "radio", their own entertainment is streamed. Every few weeks, they may remember to empty the letter box at the gate into the rubbish or recycling bin: they won't read anything in it, they know from bitter experience that only Bad News comes in the mail. They aren't on the electoral roll. A third of them aren't even registered with any primary health care provider, they only time they have contact with the health system is at admission to an ED. They have crappy casualised jobs for minimum pay and believe that if they take a day off work for Sick Leave their casual shifts will evaporate. There are eight or more of them living in a three-bedroom house, or in other inadequate housing.
They are the end result of the thirty-year experiment we have been running in post-Keynsian economics.
They are, ummm, "challenging" to engage with

:(

1 | ... | 1901 | 1902 | 1903 | 1904 | 1905 | 1906 | 1907 | 1908 | 1909 | 1910 | 1911 | ... | 2422