2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2813587 16-Nov-2021 07:09

Batman:

at long last, boosters. @sbiddle

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-vaccination-boosters-rollout-to-start-november-29/5JWEK5MFLOI4WQKICXYOH73NDU/

Yes, it's exciting! I'll be queuing up for mine at the start of Dec.

It's going to be very interesting to see uptake, I see the data they presented showed something like 460,000 people who will be eligible by the end of Dec.

GV27

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#2813589 16-Nov-2021 07:17

Buckle up kids, the Herald has finally said what some have been suggesting; the language around the border re-opening is becoming increasingly non-committal about it happening any time soon (i.e; it's not going to be the 29th, nor will the traffic light move - it's just the decision about it):

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-auckland-borders-could-be-gone-by-mid-december/FKXXARSJL6M2AM3LI2OOA2U32M/

Aucklanders could be locked in by alert level borders for the next month before travel restrictions are eased in time for Christmas, the Herald understands.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern yesterday said a decision on Auckland boundaries will be made tomorrow, a decision that will put the city into the traffic light system very soon after a review of vaccination rates on November 29.

The Herald understands the rest of New Zealand could follow a week to 10 days later, by mid-December, and Auckland's boundaries would reopen soon after that, also by the middle of next month.

That would be almost exactly four months after the Auckland lockdown first started. I suspect many will not take the 'It's going to be another month' that well, given that all previous indications have been that the most important key date was the end of November - but that's just the decision date, not the date that anything actually happens.

sbiddle

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#2813590 16-Nov-2021 07:17

mattwnz:

The whole of NZ probably should be in a form of the traffic light system now IMO. The PM even said today that that provides additional protections over the levels. But a lot of businesses can't operate in level 2 currently throughout NZ, and a lot of events have been cancelled. IMO a lot of the wait seems to be around these vaccine passports.

The PM has for some time also said that NZ due to this covid outbreak, it means NZ is in an awkward transition. I have also heard several people from Auckland tell me that they wished that Auckland had stayed in L4 for longer and all the lockdown flouters, rather than relying on an honour system, because they didn't know that it would result in L3 for months and months.

I agree - an adapted level system OR the traffic light system should have been in place already. Many experts had just called for an adapted level system, but I think starting from scratch with the traffic light system makes a lot more sense as people won't confuse the old level rules with the new level rules.

The simple reality is the level rules are now very outdated and unfit for purpose. All the speculation right now is moving the whole country earlier than planned to the traffic light system next week after vaccination certificates launch this week, and while that move is going to be clunky, it's something that is essential.

Level 4 for longer in Auckland would have made zero difference. The problem is Level 3 hasn't been appropriate either for the last month either, but the Govt had doubled down even in September on the fact it wasn't going to have vaccine mandates or vaccine certificates until they realised both were essential.

Auckland has basically had to endure it's current L3 status and then the stage enhancements because there was nothing ready to replace the alert level system with.

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#2813598 16-Nov-2021 07:23

People who are immuno-suppressed and receiving a third dose of Pfizer as part of their primary vaccinations will need to wait at least six months after the third dose before getting a booster.

Is the booster, a standard Pfizer dose or a revised formula? I'm unsure if its an accurate description or just a generic term for an extra standard dose

sbiddle

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#2813601 16-Nov-2021 07:27

mattwnz:
freitasm:

As above. It's time to stop thinking about Auckland and think on why other regions aren't vaccinating fast enough?

Wellington first place in NZ to get to the 90% double vaccinated milestone. Showing how it should be done. Likely we will get some cases this week based on the Wairarapa gathering and concerns the MOH have over it.

It should be noted this isn't Wellington as a whole. It's several "Wellington Central" suburbs if you cherry pick suburb data to create a headline.

Capital & Coast DHB is 86% double jabbed, and Hutt Valley DHB is 81% double jabbed. If you look at the ethnicity stats both DHB's are being heavily dragged down by Maori and Pacific Island vaccination levels, and the Wgtn CBD area is clearly not being dragged down by this, whereas the working class suburbs are.

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#2813602 16-Nov-2021 07:30

tdgeek:
People who are immuno-suppressed and receiving a third dose of Pfizer as part of their primary vaccinations will need to wait at least six months after the third dose before getting a booster.

Is the booster, a standard Pfizer dose or a revised formula? I'm unsure if its an accurate description or just a generic term for an extra standard dose

It’s a third dose.

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#2813603 16-Nov-2021 07:30

Interesting. I used to live in Kilbirnie. I wonder what the numbers are like there. Is there a map of some sort available?

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#2813605 16-Nov-2021 07:38

Yes. Here:

https://covid19map.co.nz/vaccination-rates/suburb/

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

sbiddle

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#2813608 16-Nov-2021 07:45

tdgeek:

People who are immuno-suppressed and receiving a third dose of Pfizer as part of their primary vaccinations will need to wait at least six months after the third dose before getting a booster.

Is the booster, a standard Pfizer dose or a revised formula? I'm unsure if its an accurate description or just a generic term for an extra standard dose

There has been a lot of confusion from people over the terms 3rd jab and booster as they are not one and the same.. But they are one and the same. The difference comes down to medical terminology.

Right now people in NZ who are immunosuppressed are eligible for a 3rd jab. This is simply a repeat of the first two using the same vaccine and the same dosage. It has been determined that the immune response generated by the vaccine by many people who fit this criteria will be reduced compared to a "normal" person. The expectation is that after this 3rd jab that their immune system will deliver a response that is close to or as good as a "normal" person after two jabs.

A booster (which will launch at the end of the month) is for "normal" people who are deemed to have had a normal immune response to the vaccine. The booster will be used to enhance the immune response in the body. When we start giving these at the end of the month it will will be the same vaccine as the first two and will be given at the same dosage.

However both the boosters and our pediatric vaccines for 5-11yr olds that NZ ordered last week and are due to arrive from March onwards will have the new formulation with the tris buffer solution rather than the TBS buffer solution used in the current vaccines we have here. The actual vaccine formula is unchanged, but the new buffer solution allows for better shelf live and the vaccines to be stored in regular fridges for a lot longer.

The words are used interchangeably by a lot of people who don't understand the difference, but from a medical point of view they are very different, and will be recorded as such on your medical record.

Batman

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#2813610 16-Nov-2021 07:49

i don't worry about terminology.

when immunity lapses i take another shot.

that's why i get the flu jab every year. before i did that i had this annual sickness that floored me. (hint - if you don't feel like dying you don't have flu, just a cold). right now the whole house is sick as a dog and i'm fine. i think the rest of the house are going to take the flu jab next year.

Geektastic

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#2813613 16-Nov-2021 07:58

sbiddle:
Batman:

at long last, boosters. @sbiddle

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-vaccination-boosters-rollout-to-start-november-29/5JWEK5MFLOI4WQKICXYOH73NDU/

Yes, it's exciting! I'll be queuing up for mine at the start of Dec.

It's going to be very interesting to see uptake, I see the data they presented showed something like 460,000 people who will be eligible by the end of Dec.

I had my second on 24 June. I'll be turning up for my booster just as soon as I can!

With a slew of medical conditions that works make Covid a greater risk than normal, I'll be in there like a rat up a drain pipe.

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#2813619 16-Nov-2021 08:17

Batman:
i don't worry about terminology.

when immunity lapses i take another shot.

that's why i get the flu jab every year. before i did that i had this annual sickness that floored me. (hint - if you don't feel like dying you don't have flu, just a cold). right now the whole house is sick as a dog and i'm fine. i think the rest of the house are going to take the flu jab next year.

Have they got the flu or a really bad cold? And does the flu shot prevent you from getting a cold? My wife has been sick for a few weeks now with a really bad cold, lots of fatigue and slow recovery. I caught it and bounced back after a few days. I have not had the flu shot this year but my wife has, it's the first one I missed in years.

SJB

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#2813629 16-Nov-2021 08:57

The only people I blame for this mess are the government. They had months to plan and organize before Delta arrived and all they did was congratulate themselves on what a great job they had done.

trig42

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#2813630 16-Nov-2021 09:00

The only reason we aren't moving to the new system now is they haven't got the vaccine passports or the mechanisms to check them ready.

This, I lay squarely at their feet. They must have known a long time ago that they would need some way of verifying who is and isn't vaccinated (even though only as late as September they were doubting they'd use them).

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#2813706 16-Nov-2021 09:56

trig42:

The only reason we aren't moving to the new system now is they haven't got the vaccine passports or the mechanisms to check them ready.

This, I lay squarely at their feet. They must have known a long time ago that they would need some way of verifying who is and isn't vaccinated (even though only as late as September they were doubting they'd use them).

Until recently, it had been the government's hope and expectation that we would not need or use 'vaccine passports' in NZ.
In that situation, it would have been very unwise for MoH personnel to go any further than whiteboard-based contingency planning as they could be portrayed as working against expressed government policy, which is a Major No-No in the Public Service.

As to why the government didn't want vaccine passports, that's easy: they are inherently by-design discriminatory and divisive, and contrary to the inclusive 'team of five million' approach.
Also, a vaccine passport system will effectively discriminate against the socially dislocated, the rural isolated and the poor, further exacerbating their disconnection from mainstream society. The fact that these disadvantaged groups will disproportionately include Maori and Pacific Island New Zealanders only makes it worse.

Then you add on top of that that the MoH is genuinely and sincerely organisationally focused on protection of personal information, promotion of individual personal agency in health matters and conducting their business in a manner which fully respects the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi, and you make the whole business of creating a Vaccine Passport system much more difficult and technically challenging.
MoH are not a border control agency and this kind of stuff is absolutely not in their organisational DNA

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