Lime scooters

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2350 posts

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#2181237 16-Feb-2019 13:47

tdgeek:

gzt:
itxtme:

Not 30c a km. $1 to hire, then 30c a minute

No wonder some riders are in a hurry. Speed is incentivised.; ).

Hmm. I don't see them at 30kph much, usually a lot less, like a fast cycle. At $18 per hour and 18kph average that's $1 a km. 30c per minute sounds cheaper, good marketing. I bet red lights in town are annoying!!!

Well it does make more sense that way, because the average ride is 10 minutes ($4)

mattwnz:

Not sure why they charge more per minute in NZ than they do in the US. It would make more sense IMO to charge per km if travelling a certain distance, otherwise there is an incentive to travel as fast as possible.

Interesting to see on Radio NZ, that the woman who got a serious head injury say that she likely wouldn't have had the head injury if a helmet had been used, and that everyone should wear a helmet with these, and they shouldn't be used when dark, which is all common sense IMO. Is it right that it is illegal to ride a pushbike without a helmet, where you have to be cycling quite quickly to get up to 30km/hr, whereas you can ride these without one, and it can get up to 30km/hr relatively easily? Something doesn't seem right there. Also there was talk at getting rid of the need to wear cycle helmets not that long ago, yet they save lives and protect against serious head injuries. Considering all the other health and safety things we have, a lot of it overkill and just common sense, this would just be madness.

Well, they charge 15 cents US which works out to about 22 cents NZ. More competition there too, I wonder how competition in NZ will affect prices.

BlakJak

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#2181705 17-Feb-2019 22:07

tdgeek:
mattwnz:

Not sure why they charge more per minute in NZ than they do in the US. It would make more sense IMO to charge per km if travelling a certain distance, otherwise there is an incentive to travel as fast as possible.

Interesting to see on Radio NZ, that the woman who got a serious head injury say that she likely wouldn't have had the head injury if a helmet had been used, and that everyone should wear a helmet with these, and they shouldn't be used when dark, which is all common sense IMO. Is it right that it is illegal to ride a pushbike without a helmet, where you have to be cycling quite quickly to get up to 30km/hr, whereas you can ride these without one, and it can get up to 30km/hr relatively easily? Something doesn't seem right there. Also there was talk at getting rid of the need to wear cycle helmets not that long ago, yet they save lives and protect against serious head injuries. Considering all the other health and safety things we have, a lot of it overkill and just common sense, this would just be madness.

Yes, madness. Nobody thinks of anything when they go cycling, the helmet is automatic. Scooters go faster, they are harder to ride, balance wise than a cycle, yet the world will end of we are forced to use a helmet, it takes away the enjoyment, blah, blah, blah. Makes no sense at all

Its not compatible with the business model, thats all it comes down to. Although it will mess with my fresh permed hair.......

A good and creative lawyer could take action to make cycle helmets voluntary based on the physics with scooters. Just to make a point.

Helmets are mandatory on bicycles and yet I constantly see people not wearing them.

And this goes all the way back to when I was a kid (the law was introduced in the 80's I believe), helmets adorned handlebars more than heads.

Still true today though perhaps less frequently seen in suburban Wellington than in my South Auckland youth-haunts.

And if you look at the Onzo fleet in Wellington - a goodly proportion have got their helmet absent. What do you do - not use it? Or constantly carry one around on the offchance?

I for one look forward to having the option to use an Onzo to simplify getting around-town and would wear a helmet if one was there at the time - but I'm not inclined to carry one constantly, so it's a case of 'i'll use it if it's there'. Have done so with Onzo's and would do so with Lime's I think.

No signature to see here, move along...

tdgeek

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#2181742 18-Feb-2019 07:46

BlakJak:
tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Not sure why they charge more per minute in NZ than they do in the US. It would make more sense IMO to charge per km if travelling a certain distance, otherwise there is an incentive to travel as fast as possible.

Interesting to see on Radio NZ, that the woman who got a serious head injury say that she likely wouldn't have had the head injury if a helmet had been used, and that everyone should wear a helmet with these, and they shouldn't be used when dark, which is all common sense IMO. Is it right that it is illegal to ride a pushbike without a helmet, where you have to be cycling quite quickly to get up to 30km/hr, whereas you can ride these without one, and it can get up to 30km/hr relatively easily? Something doesn't seem right there. Also there was talk at getting rid of the need to wear cycle helmets not that long ago, yet they save lives and protect against serious head injuries. Considering all the other health and safety things we have, a lot of it overkill and just common sense, this would just be madness.

Yes, madness. Nobody thinks of anything when they go cycling, the helmet is automatic. Scooters go faster, they are harder to ride, balance wise than a cycle, yet the world will end of we are forced to use a helmet, it takes away the enjoyment, blah, blah, blah. Makes no sense at all

Its not compatible with the business model, thats all it comes down to. Although it will mess with my fresh permed hair.......

A good and creative lawyer could take action to make cycle helmets voluntary based on the physics with scooters. Just to make a point.

Helmets are mandatory on bicycles and yet I constantly see people not wearing them. And this goes all the way back to when I was a kid (the law was introduced in the 80's I believe), helmets adorned handlebars more than heads. Still true today though perhaps less frequently seen in suburban Wellington than in my South Auckland youth-haunts. And if you look at the Onzo fleet in Wellington - a goodly proportion have got their helmet absent. What do you do - not use it? Or constantly carry one around on the offchance? I for one look forward to having the option to use an Onzo to simplify getting around-town and would wear a helmet if one was there at the time - but I'm not inclined to carry one constantly, so it's a case of 'i'll use it if it's there'. Have done so with Onzo's and would do so with Lime's I think.

The bicycle comments arent relevant. Although I cannot recall the last tie I saw a cyclist without one

If they are required for slow, easy to ride cycles they should be on fast, harder to ride scooters

nzkiwiman

2585 posts

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#2182026 18-Feb-2019 15:07

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

Yabanize

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#2182030 18-Feb-2019 15:12

nzkiwiman:

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

It helps the more freshly charged the scooter is

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#2182046 18-Feb-2019 15:22

nzkiwiman:

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

I have seen smaller kids riding them fast, so I suspect the lighter you are, the faster you can potentially go, as well as faster acceleration.

What concerns me is the number of accidents. Apparently there have been 1 million rides, but 1100 ACC claims. That is about 1 in every 1000 rides results in an ACC claim. However obviously not everyone who has an accident would be going to the doctor or hospital to make a claim. I wonder if there are stats on how much all those ACC claims have cost vs how much tax we collect from it. Say a helmet has a cost price of $20 (based on what the warehouse sells them for, probably a lot less if purchased in bulk), providing helmets could save a lot of money and save people from serious injury.

I am personally very pro electric scooters, but do think common sense needs to be followed, and unfortunately NZ is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff country. So until a problem occurs, we don't tend to do much about it, and we are very slow at making those changes.

JaseNZ

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#2182051 18-Feb-2019 15:33

More scooter's I say , I just about could not find one today to go get my sausage rolls for smoko.

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SheriffNZ

671 posts

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#2182052 18-Feb-2019 15:34

mattwnz:

nzkiwiman:

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

I have seen smaller kids riding them fast, so I suspect the lighter you are, the faster you can potentially go, as well as faster acceleration.

What concerns me is the number of accidents. Apparently there have been 1 million rides, but 1100 ACC claims. That is about 1 in every 1000 rides results in an ACC claim. However obviously not everyone who has an accident would be going to the doctor or hospital to make a claim. I wonder if there are stats on how much all those ACC claims have cost vs how much tax we collect from it. Say a helmet has a cost price of $20 (based on what the warehouse sells them for, probably a lot less if purchased in bulk), providing helmets could save a lot of money and save people from serious injury.

I am personally very pro electric scooters, but do think common sense needs to be followed, and unfortunately NZ is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff country. So until a problem occurs, we don't tend to do much about it, and we are very slow at making those changes.

Before we go regulating too much how does the 1/1000 rides resulting in an ACC claim compare against other comparable activities and what is the regulation around those activities? And how do the costs compare against those activities. Just other questions that needs asking I think.

SheriffNZ

671 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2182053 18-Feb-2019 15:36

SheriffNZ:

mattwnz:

nzkiwiman:

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

I have seen smaller kids riding them fast, so I suspect the lighter you are, the faster you can potentially go, as well as faster acceleration.

What concerns me is the number of accidents. Apparently there have been 1 million rides, but 1100 ACC claims. That is about 1 in every 1000 rides results in an ACC claim. However obviously not everyone who has an accident would be going to the doctor or hospital to make a claim. I wonder if there are stats on how much all those ACC claims have cost vs how much tax we collect from it. Say a helmet has a cost price of $20 (based on what the warehouse sells them for, probably a lot less if purchased in bulk), providing helmets could save a lot of money and save people from serious injury.

I am personally very pro electric scooters, but do think common sense needs to be followed, and unfortunately NZ is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff country. So until a problem occurs, we don't tend to do much about it, and we are very slow at making those changes.

Before we go regulating too much how does the 1/1000 rides resulting in an ACC claim compare against other comparable activities and what is the regulation around those activities? And how do the costs compare against those activities. Just other questions that needs asking I think.

For the record, I'm pro scooter but as a country and society we often get up in arms about things and demand regulation when really it is a small thing and not worth the effort and cost. Let's think about things rationally.

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#2182054 18-Feb-2019 15:41

SheriffNZ:

Before we go regulating too much how does the 1/1000 rides resulting in an ACC claim compare against other comparable activities and what is the regulation around those activities? And how do the costs compare against those activities. Just other questions that needs asking I think.

That is the problem with the media, they don't do research into that sort of thing to see how it compares. eg I suspect rugby is up there, although riding an e scooter isn't exactly physical activity. Media seems to be more about alarmist headlines. But injuries would likely be a lot higher than 1:900, but a lot of the injuries wouldn't be serious enough to need to go to the doctor or ER, to need an ACC claim. But I thought the whole health and safety thing was about minimising the risks. Common sense shows that the risks could be minimised eg wearing a helmet. As we have ACC which I understand is a no fault system, there isn't really much incentive to do much about it either.

tdgeek

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#2182056 18-Feb-2019 15:45

Bicycles are roughly 1 per 10,000. Tenfold more ACC reported accidents are scooters.

Factors would be

1. Many new riders learning the scooter. Most cyclists are already up to speed, so not scooters fault

2. No helmets Council's/NZTA fault due to no regulations

3. More risk of skin/elbow/knee injury at higher speeds. Humans fault for knowing the risk and ignoring it

We need protecting from ourselves it seems as we cannot make a good decision. Could have a surcharge for wearing no helmet and elbow protection. Skaters go slower, what do they wear? Plenty

"Woodward wasn't surprised to find the risk was very small. Taking injuries that led to claims to ACC, they found these occur roughly nine times in every 100,000 short urban bike trips."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11816885

vexxxboy

4244 posts

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#2182088 18-Feb-2019 16:38

SheriffNZ:

mattwnz:

nzkiwiman:

I haven't been able to get over 25 kph on a Lime; but I blame my bulk for that

I have seen smaller kids riding them fast, so I suspect the lighter you are, the faster you can potentially go, as well as faster acceleration.

What concerns me is the number of accidents. Apparently there have been 1 million rides, but 1100 ACC claims. That is about 1 in every 1000 rides results in an ACC claim. However obviously not everyone who has an accident would be going to the doctor or hospital to make a claim. I wonder if there are stats on how much all those ACC claims have cost vs how much tax we collect from it. Say a helmet has a cost price of $20 (based on what the warehouse sells them for, probably a lot less if purchased in bulk), providing helmets could save a lot of money and save people from serious injury.

I am personally very pro electric scooters, but do think common sense needs to be followed, and unfortunately NZ is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff country. So until a problem occurs, we don't tend to do much about it, and we are very slow at making those changes.

Before we go regulating too much how does the 1/1000 rides resulting in an ACC claim compare against other comparable activities and what is the regulation around those activities? And how do the costs compare against those activities. Just other questions that needs asking I think.

im afraid that if you took that argument then there would be no need to regulate cars and drivers ,

Common sense is not as common as you think.

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#2182108 18-Feb-2019 17:24

tdgeek:

Bicycles are roughly 1 per 10,000. Tenfold more ACC reported accidents are scooters.

Factors would be

1. Many new riders learning the scooter. Most cyclists are already up to speed, so not scooters fault

2. No helmets Council's/NZTA fault due to no regulations

3. More risk of skin/elbow/knee injury at higher speeds. Humans fault for knowing the risk and ignoring it

The other thing is that pedestrians also are getting injured from riders of scooters. There was an elderly woman on RNZ who had a small kid ride into her ankle causing damage to tendons. With the elderly, these types of injuries take a lot longer to heal and can be more problematic. IMO cycles are easier to control and steer and I would prefer to see more e bikes , rather than scooters. But I guess scooters are cheaper.

The other thing that councils need to do is stop them being able to be left in the middle of the pavements. I have seen several, with several laying on their side, completely blocking pavements, and it just looks bad. This prevents people on mobility carts passing. Councils usually use fines as a way to fix this sort of thing, and I guess that can be passed onto the last user if they didn't park it properly.

MurrayM

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#2183414 19-Feb-2019 09:04

mattwnz:

The other thing that councils need to do is stop them being able to be left in the middle of the pavements. I have seen several, with several laying on their side, completely blocking pavements, and it just looks bad. This prevents people on mobility carts passing. Councils usually use fines as a way to fix this sort of thing, and I guess that can be passed onto the last user if they didn't park it properly.

That would be really hard to prove that it was the last user that left the scooter like that. I can see people saying "I left it standing up and out of the way, not my fault if someone else came along afterwards and pushed it over into the middle of the footpath".

richms

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#2183905 19-Feb-2019 19:38

MurrayM:

That would be really hard to prove that it was the last user that left the scooter like that. I can see people saying "I left it standing up and out of the way, not my fault if someone else came along afterwards and pushed it over into the middle of the footpath".

The app asks you to take a photo of where you left it, so if you choose not to then its a problem.

Richard rich.ms

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