EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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301 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2308474 30-Aug-2019 13:58

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

I have a non-plugin hybrid. It is my main car though. My Camry uses less fuel in every day running than our Swift. The best way to think about these cars though, is as efficient petrol vehicles not EVs. If all you are using it for is short trips to golf and can plug it in each night, then isn’t a Leaf, even one with slightly compromised range, a better bet?

Edit: As you have pointed out previously the payback on the extra cost of batteries in EVs is just not there in fuel savings. The same goes for hybrids unless you are doing a reasonable number of kms. Your use case probably doesn’t justify even a hybrid let alone an EV but there is something to be said for the intangibles. I didn’t particularly buy my car for ‘green’ reasons, but more for the smooth way it drives and the tech within. So there may be some of that in it for you. Would gliding along in an electric car, even just to golf, “bring you joy” (to borrow a phrase)?

That pretty much nails it. Get a cheap 2010 Note with low kms for 6-7k, done. At say 19k for a 2017 E-Power Note that's overkill, but quite a nice wee car. 2017 Leaf is 40k. An older Leaf at say 16k is an option, range no issue, but its older. What bothers me with used Leafs, is I see some with really low km, but bad SOH, and ones with higher kms, say 60km, but with much better SOH. I assume that comes down to the amount of fast charging?

Reminds me when I was a teen, myself and two mates went out to buy a dinghy for fishing, came back with an 18' powerboat

I don't quite get it. You're prepared to get a 2010 ICE, but not prepared to get say a 2012 leaf because it's 'older'?

If a $12k leaf has a SOH that can support the range you need + some... then why not?

Linuxluver

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#2308556 30-Aug-2019 17:03

kingdragonfly:
I'm not sure how well those points relate to the Note, it isn't the same kind of hybrid as the Prius (or other Toyota hybrids). My understanding is that it DOES have the performance of an EV and that it is mechanically simpler than most hybrids. There is no drive from the petrol motor to the wheels, this means no complex transmission system. I think it could be a car worth looking into if there isn't an EV that suits your needs at a reasonable price.

You are correct about the Nissan Note.

This version of the Note can't run without petrol. Anyone wanting zero emissions isn't going to get it with this car. Yes, it has an electric motor and a tiny battery continually topped up by the petrol generator.

This is not the car that can address climate change.

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tdgeek

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#2308566 30-Aug-2019 17:38

Jeeves:
tdgeek:

Dingbatt:

I have a non-plugin hybrid. It is my main car though. My Camry uses less fuel in every day running than our Swift. The best way to think about these cars though, is as efficient petrol vehicles not EVs. If all you are using it for is short trips to golf and can plug it in each night, then isn’t a Leaf, even one with slightly compromised range, a better bet?

Edit: As you have pointed out previously the payback on the extra cost of batteries in EVs is just not there in fuel savings. The same goes for hybrids unless you are doing a reasonable number of kms. Your use case probably doesn’t justify even a hybrid let alone an EV but there is something to be said for the intangibles. I didn’t particularly buy my car for ‘green’ reasons, but more for the smooth way it drives and the tech within. So there may be some of that in it for you. Would gliding along in an electric car, even just to golf, “bring you joy” (to borrow a phrase)?

That pretty much nails it. Get a cheap 2010 Note with low kms for 6-7k, done. At say 19k for a 2017 E-Power Note that's overkill, but quite a nice wee car. 2017 Leaf is 40k. An older Leaf at say 16k is an option, range no issue, but its older. What bothers me with used Leafs, is I see some with really low km, but bad SOH, and ones with higher kms, say 60km, but with much better SOH. I assume that comes down to the amount of fast charging?

Reminds me when I was a teen, myself and two mates went out to buy a dinghy for fishing, came back with an 18' powerboat

I don't quite get it. You're prepared to get a 2010 ICE, but not prepared to get say a 2012 leaf because it's 'older'?

If a $12k leaf has a SOH that can support the range you need + some... then why not?

The older a Leafs tend to be around 18k. I can get a 2017 ePower Note for 19. Or I get the 2010 Note for 6.5. I aim for lower kms

kingdragonfly

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#2308567 30-Aug-2019 17:39

The Nissan Note "e-power" also not available world-wide until 2022.

You could buy a used Japanese import, since it was was released 11 months ago. It looks like about NZD $32,000.

It looks like a number of major exporters have bad reputations,so buyer aware

Note is not zero emissions, but better than an ICE.

Linuxluver

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#2308591 30-Aug-2019 18:03

The e-Note isn't an electric car as it can't be plugged in and can't run without petrol.

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Obraik

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#2308605 30-Aug-2019 19:02

tdgeek:

The older a Leafs tend to be around 18k. I can get a 2017 ePower Note for 19. Or I get the 2010 Note for 6.5. I aim for lower kms

This one is $15k with all 12 of its battery bars and 18k km's on the dial

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#2308628 30-Aug-2019 20:35

That is good. I see the ones below, "Other listings you may like" are also cheap. Auckland is oversupplied and cheaper? If you do ChCh, quite a bit higher.

This one https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-2247264761.htm low kms, 40,000, 11 bars, but its SOH is low at 76%. Why is that? 11/12 bars is good but 76% is low

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tdgeek

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#2308629 30-Aug-2019 20:42

Linuxluver: The e-Note isn't an electric car as it can't be plugged in and can't run without petrol.

I'd agree with that. It uses petrol as the core fuel. Oddly, it uses less petrol than my 656cc motorbike that weighs just 219kg wet.

As a concept, the Note, and other similar hybrids are a good thing. Our car is rated at 9.4L/100km so these alternatives do have a place, as they are cheap, really low fuel usage, and dont have the low range of older similar priced EV's. A Leaf that Mr O linked me too, led me to one that the dealer noted can go 95k on a full charge. Thats getting a bit tight.

But keeping my options open

paulchinnz

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#2308632 30-Aug-2019 20:43

Hanging on to it's 11th bar for dear life - usually it's gone by around 78%, if memory serves. The first bar is 'disproportionate' in that it's lost around SOH 85%, after that's it's roughly 7-8% per bar.

Dingbatt

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#2308660 30-Aug-2019 22:39

Interesting comparison of Leaf, Ioniq and Model 3 on Australian YouTube channel Carsguide (sorry can’t link it at the moment). Only a short drive out of Sydney, but well worth a watch for the conclusions they drew. The title is;

Tesla Model 3 vs Nissan Leaf vs Hyundai Ioniq Electric : 2019 Comparison Review

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

kingdragonfly

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#2308685 31-Aug-2019 07:41

Good video.

kingdragonfly

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#2308987 1-Sep-2019 11:48

Why Electric Motors Are Just... Better

Joe Scott | Random Thursday

We hear a lot about EV batteries, but not so much about the motors that give the cars such high performance. So today I'll be talking about the 3-phase AC Induction motor, created by Nikola Tesla, and why it's taking over the auto industry.

networkn

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#2309237 2-Sep-2019 09:07

So, I took the Jag I-Pace for a drive in the weekend. It's *very* impressive. It takes a fair bit to impress me in cars these days, I have driven a lot of high performance and luxury cars (and owned a few), but this is something very different. For an SUV the handling is surprisingly car like and the performance is quite something. I can see why people like them. I didn't get to throw it around corners hard or anything so I can't really tell how it compares to my 3 series which has exceptional handling in sports mode, but there was next to no body roll in normal driving, the suspension seemed about right, and despite having a very similar 0-60 time as my car, it felt a LOT quicker. Range seemed good at around 400KM (It's higher but I'd never expect to get that given my heavy foot).

At $140-185K though, to fair you'd expect pretty good performance and handling in an ICE car too. There is probably $28-40K price difference relative to an ICE vehicle and that's too big of a gap to justify for most people.

So far, as much as I'd love an EV, esp after the weekend experience, I think I'll need one more generation of ICE until there is a greater variety of EV's around (ideally a sports wagon) and the price gap closes significantly.

I think though, for my wife, once we don't have a large dog, she will be able to make do with a smaller cheaper EV and she seemed pretty convinced.

Obraik

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#2309262 2-Sep-2019 10:04

networkn:

So, I took the Jag I-Pace for a drive in the weekend. It's *very* impressive. It takes a fair bit to impress me in cars these days, I have driven a lot of high performance and luxury cars (and owned a few), but this is something very different. For an SUV the handling is surprisingly car like and the performance is quite something. I can see why people like them. I didn't get to throw it around corners hard or anything so I can't really tell how it compares to my 3 series which has exceptional handling in sports mode, but there was next to no body roll in normal driving, the suspension seemed about right, and despite having a very similar 0-60 time as my car, it felt a LOT quicker. Range seemed good at around 400KM (It's higher but I'd never expect to get that given my heavy foot).

At $140-185K though, to fair you'd expect pretty good performance and handling in an ICE car too. There is probably $28-40K price difference relative to an ICE vehicle and that's too big of a gap to justify for most people.

So far, as much as I'd love an EV, esp after the weekend experience, I think I'll need one more generation of ICE until there is a greater variety of EV's around (ideally a sports wagon) and the price gap closes significantly.

I think though, for my wife, once we don't have a large dog, she will be able to make do with a smaller cheaper EV and she seemed pretty convinced.

Have you taken a Tesla Model X for a test drive before? They start around the same price as an I-Pace although the Model X is more of a performance people mover.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

networkn

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#2309264 2-Sep-2019 10:08

Obraik:

networkn:

So, I took the Jag I-Pace for a drive in the weekend. It's *very* impressive. It takes a fair bit to impress me in cars these days, I have driven a lot of high performance and luxury cars (and owned a few), but this is something very different. For an SUV the handling is surprisingly car like and the performance is quite something. I can see why people like them. I didn't get to throw it around corners hard or anything so I can't really tell how it compares to my 3 series which has exceptional handling in sports mode, but there was next to no body roll in normal driving, the suspension seemed about right, and despite having a very similar 0-60 time as my car, it felt a LOT quicker. Range seemed good at around 400KM (It's higher but I'd never expect to get that given my heavy foot).

At $140-185K though, to fair you'd expect pretty good performance and handling in an ICE car too. There is probably $28-40K price difference relative to an ICE vehicle and that's too big of a gap to justify for most people.

So far, as much as I'd love an EV, esp after the weekend experience, I think I'll need one more generation of ICE until there is a greater variety of EV's around (ideally a sports wagon) and the price gap closes significantly.

I think though, for my wife, once we don't have a large dog, she will be able to make do with a smaller cheaper EV and she seemed pretty convinced.

Have you taken a Tesla Model X for a test drive before? They start around the same price as an I-Pace although the Model X is more of a performance people mover.

No, but it's MASSIVE, not something that interests me honestly.

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