EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2598765 6-Nov-2020 10:19

IMHO the "Juicing" as described by the article isn't a huge issue, and is more about undermining public confidence in EV's than consumer protection. While the phenomenon is real, it is a lot of work for relatively little gain (4% or 5% at most) and isn't really worth the time and effort for a dealer - although maybe it is for a private seller. More concerning to me is the rise and accessibility to technology that:

1) Reset the BMS so that it thinks/reports the battery is 100% and has to slowly relearn the battery - potential to increase reported SoH by 30-40%.

2) Can bus bridges that intercept and replace the battery SoH messages. These are used legitimately to retrofit 30/40/60kw batteries to 24kw leafs, but can be miss used for deception. This isn't an issue unique to the Leaf as the same technology is increasing common for odometer "winding" in modern ICE cars - intercepting to odo reading between the ECU to dash and deducting 100K kms etc.

These are quick and easy ways to significantly increase the reported SoH.

https://www.electronics-lab.com/open-source-can-bridge/

https://hackaday.com/tag/man-in-the-middle/

Scott3

3964 posts

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#2598796 6-Nov-2020 11:16

Scott3:

For come cars the number of Quick Charges far higher than what one would expect, even considering near exclusive use of fast chargers.

For example the below car ODO 13,536km, has been fast charged 824 times, an average range gain of 16.4km/charge, in a car that had 130km range when new, and about 90km of range now.

Personally I wouldn't own an electric car if I couldn't charge it at my normal parking space.

Missed posting link.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/2794399448

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2599022 6-Nov-2020 14:34

Scott3: https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/2794399448

I'm confused. The ad for this 2012 Leaf title from Jan Japan Motors Ltd, www.janjapan.co.nz, says "2012 Nissan Leaf X - 10 Bar." and the text says 71.87% SOH

I don't own a Leaf, and know little about it.

From the LeafSpy website

State of Health (SOH)

A magical number reported by the Leaf onboard computer.

The higher the better (more usable fraction of battery capacity). It can change by a few points at different states of charge.

A Leaf with 12 bars, will have a SOH of at least 85%, and each bar lost after that represents a 6.5% drop in SOH.

A Leaf that is a few years old and still has 12 bars, has demonstrated that it does not suffer from early degradation. However you cannot make the same assessment for a newer Leaf without LeafSpy.

You'll note the math doesn't quite add up and is based on comparisons with the Leaf Spy SOH and the bars displayed.

That seem to match up: 85% - (6.5% x 2) = 72%

RunningMan

8954 posts

Uber Geek

#2599047 6-Nov-2020 14:48

12 bars (maximum) is 85-100% SOH.

Scott3

3964 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2599207 6-Nov-2020 18:00

kingdragonfly: ...

That seem to match up: 85% - (6.5% x 2) = 72%

I don't have a leaf either, but my understanding is that the first bar is worth 15% and subsequent bars are worth 6.25% (according to flip the fleet https://flipthefleet.org/2017/nissan-leaf-check-your-battery-before-buying/)

8 bars = 60% to 66.25% SOH (state of health)
9 bars = 66.25% - 72.75%
10 bars = 72.5% to 78.75%
11 bars = 78.75% to 85%
12 bars = 85% to 100%

I think the car's reporting lags the information reported by leafspy (which bounces around a bit depending on things like the state of charge, temperature, if it was recently fastcharged etc). As such My guess is that the car in the advert is on the cusp of dropping from 10 to 9 bars, and will do so shortly.

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2600679 9-Nov-2020 20:03

Does Tesla Deserve to be The World's Most Valuable Automaker?

Economics Explained

RunningMan

8954 posts

Uber Geek

#2601159 10-Nov-2020 16:43

Cybertruck now in NZ (well, kind of) https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/123348641/you-can-buy-the-first-cybertruck-in-new-zealand

Sharesies kids

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

CYaBro

4583 posts

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#2601185 10-Nov-2020 17:52

MG has dropped the price of the ZS EV to $48,990 +ORC.

https://mgmotor.co.nz/models/mg-zsev/

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

afe66

3181 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2601518 11-Nov-2020 09:00

If I crashed my leaf tomorrow, I'd look at that MG.

Walked 800m for school run this morning and was passed by 7 leafs.... they are pretty comon here now!! Dunedin

Dingbatt

6756 posts

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#2601528 11-Nov-2020 09:16

CYaBro:

MG has dropped the price of the ZS EV to $48,990 +ORC.

https://mgmotor.co.nz/models/mg-zsev/

Be interesting to see if they hold that price when the feebate gets resurrected. $42K for a brand new EV is getting to the point where it is affordable for a whole new bunch of people.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tdgeek

29746 posts

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#2601535 11-Nov-2020 09:27

Dingbatt:

CYaBro:

MG has dropped the price of the ZS EV to $48,990 +ORC.

https://mgmotor.co.nz/models/mg-zsev/

Be interesting to see if they hold that price when the feebate gets resurrected. $42K for a brand new EV is getting to the point where it is affordable for a whole new bunch of people.

Yes, its a good price, but the ICE version is also very cheap at 27k, is MG a "cheap" car or are they just pricing MG competitively?

Range is a bit low though

HarmLessSolutions

972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2601543 11-Nov-2020 09:43

tdgeek:

Yes, its a good price, but the ICE version is also very cheap at 27k, is MG a "cheap" car or are they just pricing MG competitively?

Range is a bit low though

I'm picking that the MG will be the first of many EVs of Chinese origin with economical pricing that we will be seeing in the future.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

tdgeek

29746 posts

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#2601552 11-Nov-2020 09:54

HarmLessSolutions:

tdgeek:

Yes, its a good price, but the ICE version is also very cheap at 27k, is MG a "cheap" car or are they just pricing MG competitively?

Range is a bit low though

I'm picking that the MG will be the first of many EVs of Chinese origin with economical pricing that we will be seeing in the future.

Makes sense, there are many brands that have manufacturing plants there, VW, Audi, GM, etc, etc

wellygary

8315 posts

Uber Geek

#2601557 11-Nov-2020 10:06

Dingbatt:

Be interesting to see if they hold that price when the feebate gets resurrected. $42K for a brand new EV is getting to the point where it is affordable for a whole new bunch of people.

I wouldn't hold my breath,

Greens have no transport responsibilities this time round, and Labour specifically ruled out a feebate in its policies....

"Labour campaign manager Hayden Munro explained the feebate scheme had not been a Labour Party policy.Rather it sprung from the Greens.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122740048/feebates-vanish-but-labour-still-has-the-more-ambitious-policy-on-car-emissions

tdgeek

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#2601561 11-Nov-2020 10:17

wellygary:

I wouldn't hold my breath,

Greens have no transport responsibilities this time round, and Labour specifically ruled out a feebate in its policies....

"Labour campaign manager Hayden Munro explained the feebate scheme had not been a Labour Party policy.Rather it sprung from the Greens.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122740048/feebates-vanish-but-labour-still-has-the-more-ambitious-policy-on-car-emissions

Thanks, wasnt aware of that. While the emisisons cap would remove more carbon, the feebate would have increased demand here somewhat, even if its just for those that can afford a $60k EV verison of a $40k ICE. Its something though.

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