EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2728176 13-Jun-2021 21:24

Jaxson:
antonknee:

Not quite right, both standard hybrids and low emission petrol vehicles will pick up the rebate from 2022.

Is this guaranteed/spelled out clearly anywhere?

On NZTA’s website. The dealer faq has some good info on this too (on that page).

sleemanj

1490 posts

Uber Geek

#2728179 13-Jun-2021 21:55

kingdragonfly: When does an EV become a hybrid?

Is a BMM i3 with a range extender a hybrid?

A Nissan Note ePower (eNote), which ICE runs a generator, but petrol engine doesn't physically drive the wheels. is it a hybrid or E

If the onboard ICE provides power, be it electrical or mechanical, to drive the car when the battery is flat I think that would qualify as hybrid in my books.

I don't know about the Nissan, but the i3 REX range extender engine is roughly the same power output and CC as my car's actual engine (30 some horse 660 cc).

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Scott3

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#2728181 13-Jun-2021 22:09

kingdragonfly: When does an EV become a hybrid?

Is a BMM i3 with a range extender a hybrid?

A Nissan Note ePower (eNote), which ICE runs a generator, but petrol engine doesn't physically drive the wheels. is it a hybrid or EV?

NZTA states:

An electric vehicle (EV) has an electric motor that is powered by a battery which is charged by connecting to an external source of electricity."

There are two main types of electric vehicle:

Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) – these are a purely electric vehicles, powered only by the battery which is charged by connecting to an external source of electricity.
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) – these have two engines – one powered by a battery which is charged by connecting to an external source of electricity, the other engine is fuelled from a fuel tank and generally uses petrol or diesel.

Conventional forms of petrol hybrids aren’t considered electric vehicles as they aren’t charged by ‘plugging in’. Their batteries are only charged by re-capturing energy when braking or from electricity generated by the engine.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/electric-vehicles/

So the Note e-power is not considered an electric vehicle (it is a series hybrid).

The BMW i3 REX is considered a Plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.

Jaxson

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#2728185 13-Jun-2021 23:04

Many ‘self charging’ hybrids have pitifully small battery capacity, and are used to get the car rolling at low speeds before the efficient but less powerful Atkinson-cycle engine takes over.

The Toyota Yaris Cross can do around 1km max on batteries alone. Still, are very efficient compare to normal ICE only cars.

gzt

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#2728189 13-Jun-2021 23:58

wellygary: but the big concern for NZ must be the lacklustre adoption of EVS in Japan

Japan government has already announced all cars must be EV or Hybrid by 2035. You can expect Japan domestic market volumes to increase one way or another. As a side effect this measure in NZ will provide resale confidence for JDM retail buyers.

Geektastic

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#2728190 14-Jun-2021 00:05

It’s not enough discount or penalty to stop me buying the car I want regardless of the engine in it.

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#2728193 14-Jun-2021 06:25

Geektastic: It’s not enough discount or penalty to stop me buying the car I want regardless of the engine in it.

Excellent, then they've set the fees just right, haven't they?

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tdgeek

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#2728195 14-Jun-2021 07:13

SaltyNZ:

Geektastic: It’s not enough discount or penalty to stop me buying the car I want regardless of the engine in it.

Excellent, then they've set the fees just right, haven't they?

Well no. In his example the rebate is wasted money should he buy a lower emission vehicle. And should he buy an ICE, the rebate has not worked

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2728257 14-Jun-2021 09:05

tdgeek:

Well no. In his example the rebate is wasted money should he buy a lower emission vehicle. And should he buy an ICE, the rebate has not worked

It's not going to be a deal breaker or influencer to everyone.

However, for many it will. If Tesla's inventory stock is anything to go by, it's working quite well. There were around 15 cars in their inventory before the announcement and now there are only 3 available that don't qualify for the rebate.

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tdgeek

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#2728262 14-Jun-2021 09:09

Norway has a large market share on road of EV's, they have the rebate system, and I assume that's been in place for some time. Given its now 2021 there are far more models and ranges available, and I assume production volume, so it would seem that the Kiwi rebate scheme will have massive numbers arriving in the near future?

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2728275 14-Jun-2021 09:52

tdgeek:

Norway has a large market share on road of EV's, they have the rebate system, and I assume that's been in place for some time. Given its now 2021 there are far more models and ranges available, and I assume production volume, so it would seem that the Kiwi rebate scheme will have massive numbers arriving in the near future?

Haven't you heard of the global Chip Crunch?

Car manufacturers globally are having to limit production of many model simply because they can't raw components,

An example is Nissan's Ariya which has had its Japan Launch pushed back until very late '21 early 22 with the Rest of the world to follow some time after that

https://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/chip-shortage-forces-nissan-to-delay-all-important-ev

Tesla have pushed back deliveries for the new S and X by up to 3 months...

Then there is shipping...

EV dealers in NZ are really going to struggle to get new stock

tdgeek

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#2728281 14-Jun-2021 10:03

wellygary:

tdgeek:

Norway has a large market share on road of EV's, they have the rebate system, and I assume that's been in place for some time. Given its now 2021 there are far more models and ranges available, and I assume production volume, so it would seem that the Kiwi rebate scheme will have massive numbers arriving in the near future?

Haven't you heard of the global Chip Crunch?

Car manufacturers globally are having to limit production of many model simply because they can't raw components,

An example is Nissan's Ariya which has had its Japan Launch pushed back until very late '21 early 22 with the Rest of the world to follow some time after that

https://www.autocar.co.nz/autocar-news-app/chip-shortage-forces-nissan-to-delay-all-important-ev

Tesla have pushed back deliveries for the new S and X by up to 3 months...

Then there is shipping...

EV dealers in NZ are really going to struggle to get new stock

So? The chips issue affects all cars. If vehicle imports are affected by the chip issue, the import volumes (of all cars) will reduce. But, the percentage of EV's in any given month should now spiral upward given this rebate?

ezbee

2405 posts

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#2728293 14-Jun-2021 10:27

What % of the NZ car market is the New Car market these days anyway ?
Politicians talk of the NZ new car market feeding EVs into second hand market, but maybe not significant in todays market ?

I expect that any major uptake will be driven by the second hand Japanese market.
Its a scary thought of what happens to age of our car fleet if a large number of Japanese find they can't justify buying a new car every 2 years.

So we are looking to 2-6 year old technology availability to feed a quick change in our market.

Investing in robust fast efficient public transport networks across New Zealand may be needed for future proofing.

Relying on old Leafs for some time to come ?

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#2728297 14-Jun-2021 10:37

According to the opendata portal, looking at just private passenger vehicles (so excluding company/rental cars), there were 238,528 vehicle registrations last year. 120,070 of those were for new vehicles, 117,766 were used imports. So assuming I've filtered correctly, more vehicles introduced last year were brand new vs used imports

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SaltyNZ

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#2728301 14-Jun-2021 10:41

ezbee:

What % of the NZ car market is the New Car market these days anyway ?
Politicians talk of the NZ new car market feeding EVs into second hand market, but maybe not significant in todays market ?

I expect that any major uptake will be driven by the second hand Japanese market.
Its a scary thought of what happens to age of our car fleet if a large number of Japanese find they can't justify buying a new car every 2 years.

So we are looking to 2-6 year old technology availability to feed a quick change in our market.

Investing in robust fast efficient public transport networks across New Zealand may be needed for future proofing.

Relying on old Leafs for some time to come ?

We definitely need to do a lot more to improve PT, but if the Japanese stop buying new cars then we're out of luck no matter what. That may just mean a bigger pull on the lever to further shift the balance in the right direction and a reduction in new car import taxes to offset a reduction in Japanese used inventory. Other than specialists I don't think anyone buys a Japanese import by choice - everyone would prefer their dashboard in English. It's been a bit of a crutch for too long.

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