How do you prefer to hill start (in a manual)?

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2780 posts

Uber Geek

#1423573 9-Nov-2015 11:31

Most cars have some form of hill start assist these days, so just foot brake off, clutch out + accel on.

Jase2985

13466 posts

Uber Geek

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#1423577 9-Nov-2015 11:34

Inphinity: Most cars have some form of hill start assist these days, so just foot brake off, clutch out + accel on.

most new cars, and what % of the fleet in nz do they make up? probably less than 1%?

DizzyD

523 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1423580 9-Nov-2015 11:37

MikeB4:

Can I ask why you want to use a manual car?

Modern automatic transmissions are far better and efficient than manuals, unless you are going to do serious off roading or truck driving.

Say what??

WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

Uber Geek

#1423589 9-Nov-2015 11:53

MikeB4:
tdgeek: Handbrake. Easy, Reliable. Handbrake on, engage gear, ease clutch out, when you feel it biting, ease off handbrake.

Mike
Modern automatic transmissions are far better and efficient than manuals,

Is that the case these days? Given that autos are driving on compressed oil rather than direct drive, I'd have thought that the decades old status that they are a bit slower and use more gas, still applies?

Not I'm my experience the gearbox in my Nissan Altima is smooth never hunts for a gear, and definitely contributes to the average fuel consumption showing 6.4L/100 km.

My wifes' Skoda has a 7 speed DSG that is absolutely sweet, the best auto transmission if have ever experienced. It is an automatic twin clutch semi that works extremely efficiently.

Compared to what I had on HQ Holders etc and even 90's Commodores the modern autos are way way better than the old technology of manuals.

Modern Automatic transmissions are manual gearbox's. This is especially the case with the VAG group DSG gearboxes.

Essentially, a DSG gearbox is an Automated Manual Gearbox, not an automatic gearbox because it has no Torque converter. Clever electronics operating the clutch(s)

Wikipedia is my friend here..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

Happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.

lagbort

263 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#1423593 9-Nov-2015 11:58

WyleECoyoteNZ:
MikeB4:
tdgeek: Handbrake. Easy, Reliable. Handbrake on, engage gear, ease clutch out, when you feel it biting, ease off handbrake.

Mike
Modern automatic transmissions are far better and efficient than manuals,

Is that the case these days? Given that autos are driving on compressed oil rather than direct drive, I'd have thought that the decades old status that they are a bit slower and use more gas, still applies?

Not I'm my experience the gearbox in my Nissan Altima is smooth never hunts for a gear, and definitely contributes to the average fuel consumption showing 6.4L/100 km.

My wifes' Skoda has a 7 speed DSG that is absolutely sweet, the best auto transmission if have ever experienced. It is an automatic twin clutch semi that works extremely efficiently.

Compared to what I had on HQ Holders etc and even 90's Commodores the modern autos are way way better than the old technology of manuals.

Modern Automatic transmissions are manual gearbox's. This is especially the case with the VAG group DSG gearboxes.

Essentially, a DSG gearbox is an Automated Manual Gearbox, not an automatic gearbox because it has no Torque converter. Clever electronics operating the clutch(s)

Wikipedia is my friend here..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

Happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.

You are correct in the case of Dual Clutch gearboxes (sold under many different brand names by different manufacturers).

Most Auto cars are still the standard torque converter type though, however even these have improved hugely in the last few years, to the point where a good auto (i.e. not one in a bargain basement run-about) is generally superior to a manual in both performance and economy.

Cheap autos though are still pretty nasty.

And for the record I drive a manual, in a car that only exists in manual.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29771 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

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#1423633 9-Nov-2015 12:31

Dual clutch are under the robotic clutch manual category and technically not a traditional automatic which has a torque converter in place of a clutch.

I prefer a clutchless manual though. Like a dog box.

Just to be confusing though, the media calls dual clutch transmission clutchless manuals but surely to confuse the average reader who have just read dual and clutch alongside in the same paragraph.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1424079 10-Nov-2015 02:00

Alot of newer cars have CVT auto boxes instead of conventional auto. Automatic cars at the Jap Second hand auctions are cheaper than manuals. Due to competition from buyers in other countries. That is why you see so many automatic cars in nz. There would be alot more manuals if people here mostly bought brand new cars.

Problem is that having too many automatics keeps the average car age older. As people who buy cars in the less than 10k price range prefer manual. As having an auto gearbox fail means the car is often a write off. So sticking to older cars that are easy to repair. And which are less likely to fail without warning. As it is hard to tell if an automatic gearbox is close to failure.

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riahon

946 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1424087 10-Nov-2015 04:23

Handbrake, and may I would suggest to get used to it, practice using the technique at every instance where you are stopped at traffic lights until it becomes natural.

alasta

6709 posts

Uber Geek

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#1424126 10-Nov-2015 08:48

Aredwood: Alot of newer cars have CVT auto boxes instead of conventional auto. Automatic cars at the Jap Second hand auctions are cheaper than manuals. Due to competition from buyers in other countries. That is why you see so many automatic cars in nz. There would be alot more manuals if people here mostly bought brand new cars.

Very, very few new cars are available with a manual transmission. It's really only high performance vehicles such as the Focus ST, 208GTi, Pro C'eed GT, etc.

DravidDavid

1907 posts

Uber Geek

#1424266 10-Nov-2015 11:25

I drive a 5 speed manual MR2 with a heavy clutch. Your leg strengthens and becomes used to any clutch weight you have to bare through traffic.

If it's just small hills, I shuffle. Clutch in, clutch out out and then on the brake. I never ride the clutch to keep my position on a hill. I use the handbrake method when on very steep hills, but otherwise I find I'm quick enough to get on the clutch and the gas to stop the car from rolling back too much if at all.

You will almost certainly find when you get used to it, muscle memory will kick in and you will find yourself using the handbrake less and less. My clutch bites when it's practically on the floor unlike other cars I've had to drive recently which traveled a long way before anything useful happened. Keep your right foot on the brake pedal, when the light goes green, find the power point (or just below the power point) when traffic starts moving, lift off the brake, find the power point definitively so there is load on the engine and release the clutch almost all the way out as your increase your RPM. You will get better at this as time goes on and the fear of rolling back will disappear completely.

On the topic of automatic versus manual. Automatics will never beat out a manual on drivability or economy. Some may be more "economic" to drive, but when it comes to servicing/fixing/replacing time, all those cents you saved racking up miles will have gone to waste. Automatic gearboxes are often twice the weight of a standard transmission also. All the manual cars I've driven have been more economic than their automatic equivalents.

Automatic Caldina GT-T: 400 to 450 average (occasionally 500 if driven nicely)
Manual 5 speed Caldina GT-T 500 to 550 (occasionally 570'ish if driven nicely)

Unless you're buying a sports car for the look and don't care for the drive, then an auto may be for you. If you want a proper driving experience, nothing will replace a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission. Ever. Although slightly irrelivent, I also think drivers of manual cars are better drivers in general. They are more in tune with what is happening around them and are prepared to put effort in to traveling from place to place.

TL;DR: Use your handbrake to start with. You won't need to use it for long though. You will lose the fear of rolling back when you have more confidence in your muscle memory when getting on and off the clutch and brake on normal hills. Thanks for driving a manual!

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1424314 10-Nov-2015 12:41

pdath:

Put the handbrake on.
Put the car in gear.
Add a little bit of accelerator.
Let the clutch out until you start to feel it "bite" and you can feel the car pulling against the handbrake. If you have an RPM gauge you should see the RPM drop.
Let the hand brake off gently. The car should start to pull away.
Apply more accelerator gently.

Yeah, that's what I do.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18668 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1424315 10-Nov-2015 12:43

It has been a long time since I drove a stick, but then I was younger and my cars dated from the 50s and 60s I developed my own technique. In very rapid sequence, foot off the brake, hit the gas, partially let the clutch out to prevent rolling backward, ease the remaining clutch out while giving a little more gas so car starts uphill in a controlled fashion. It is all a matter of coordinating release of the clutch with addition of gas. With practice it is pretty easy to do smooth starts without excessively slipping the clutch or stalling the engine.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

lagbort

263 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

#1424319 10-Nov-2015 12:47

Clutch in
Foot flat to the floor on the throttle
when the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter:
release the handbrake and drop the clutch as quickly as possible

DravidDavid

1907 posts

Uber Geek

#1424490 10-Nov-2015 16:08

lagbort:

Clutch in
Foot flat to the floor on the throttle
when the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter:
release the handbrake and drop the clutch as quickly as possible

5. Purchase new clutch.

pdath

252 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1424492 10-Nov-2015 16:09

DravidDavid:
lagbort:

Clutch in
Foot flat to the floor on the throttle
when the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter:
release the handbrake and drop the clutch as quickly as possible

5. Purchase new clutch.

+ tyres.

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