EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2880915 8-Mar-2022 09:53

alasta:

I tried cutting some numbers yesterday to see how the economics of an electric vehicle purchase would play out in my particular situation. This raised a few interesting points:

Ability to charge at home - in my case this isn't possible as I have an apartment car park with inadequate electrical infrastructure. Public chargers appear to be much more expensive than home charging due to them having a time based charge as well as a consumption charge.
Depreciation - would an electric vehicle depreciate at the same $ rate or the same % rate as a combustion engine vehicle? Time will tell.
Insurance - presumably the higher capital value of an electric vehicle would incur higher insurance premiums?
Road user charges - I assume that this will be implemented eventually and it's unclear at what rate.

I've been looking at this semi-seriously too. It's time for an upgrade for the wifey to replace a good but aging CX-5, and am really struggling to justify spending that much money on a car, or to understand the economics of it. Most I've ever spent on a car is $24K (back in 2012), and even that felt like too much. It's not that I can't go into a dealer and splash out, I just don't like wasting money, where it could be used on an investment or appreciating asset.

For 2nd hand ICE cars there's a sweet spot of ~4/6 years old where you can get a good car with low mileage for a reasonable price, but with electric you pretty much have to buy new to get the most out of the battery, warranty, rapid advancements in BEV tech etc, and depreciation does indeed at this point in time appear to be minimal. I guess that's limited supply vs great demand - further fueled by high petrol/diesel costs.

Are there any good pricing calculators which help weigh the options up?

RobDickinson

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#2880916 8-Mar-2022 09:58

We dont really have a lot of 4-6 year old EV options , things are still ramping up. I think the only SUV option of that age is a model X...?

But look forward not backwards, spending $25-30k on a fossil burner today would be quite a bad move - esp when you can get an MG ZS EV for $42k new etc

RobDickinson

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#2880921 8-Mar-2022 10:00

Heres some good info on the options available

https://buyersguide.ecotricity.nz/

An outlander phev would do EV most daily trips/commutes and still give you the space and range of a largeish suv

GV27

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#2880924 8-Mar-2022 10:02

RobDickinson:

An outlander phev would do EV most daily trips/commutes and still give you the space and range of a largeish suv

But you'd have to run the capacity out quicker in a smaller battery to do it. At least the PHEV range of these things are improving though, we can thank the UK government for that.

RobDickinson

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#2880951 8-Mar-2022 10:23

PHEVs are setup for that, the outlander cells are under volted and it never goes below about 30-35% charge etc.

GV27

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#2880966 8-Mar-2022 10:36

RobDickinson:

PHEVs are setup for that, the outlander cells are under volted and it never goes below about 30-35% charge etc.

Sounds like they must have made some fairly serious chemistry changes, the My Outlander forums were full of people lamenting the wear on the earlier models. Wish I was in a position to buy new. Or used 😅

RobDickinson

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#2881015 8-Mar-2022 10:38

The outlander issues are not to do with the cells tbh its down to the awful BMS software

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insane

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#2881020 8-Mar-2022 10:40

RobDickinson:

We dont really have a lot of 4-6 year old EV options , things are still ramping up. I think the only SUV option of that age is a model X...?

But look forward not backwards, spending $25-30k on a fossil burner today would be quite a bad move - esp when you can get an MG ZS EV for $42k new etc

OK that makes sense then, but just in general it appears EV owners don't flip their cars as often. Perhaps they are all counting on owning them for longer to make the economics work?

The ICE options I was looking at were indeed around the $32K mark, and I guess pushing another $10K could well make good sense with the way fuel pricing are going. Wife would love an EV or PHEV... You almost have me convinced :p

RobDickinson

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#2881068 8-Mar-2022 10:44

insane:

OK that makes sense then, but just in general it appears EV owners don't flip their cars as often. Perhaps they are all counting on owning them for longer to make the economics work?

I think thats more down to options, if you have an EV its likely a leaf, ioniq, i3 or model 3, what are you going to change too?

Obraik

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#2881072 8-Mar-2022 10:54

insane:

I've been looking at this semi-seriously too. It's time for an upgrade for the wifey to replace a good but aging CX-5, and am really struggling to justify spending that much money on a car, or to understand the economics of it. Most I've ever spent on a car is $24K (back in 2012), and even that felt like too much. It's not that I can't go into a dealer and splash out, I just don't like wasting money, where it could be used on an investment or appreciating asset.

For 2nd hand ICE cars there's a sweet spot of ~4/6 years old where you can get a good car with low mileage for a reasonable price, but with electric you pretty much have to buy new to get the most out of the battery, warranty, rapid advancements in BEV tech etc, and depreciation does indeed at this point in time appear to be minimal. I guess that's limited supply vs great demand - further fueled by high petrol/diesel costs.

Are there any good pricing calculators which help weigh the options up?

Well no, it's no point buying an EV to save money if you're going to be spending 10s of thousands more than you normally would. Unless you're driving a lot, it will take many years before you start to break even.

There are some decent second hand non-Leaf EVs starting to appear now, but not in the SUV category. If your wife doesn't mind giving up the SUV, the legacy Ioniq isn't a bad buy and can often be found in the mid 20's. It generally has around 200km of range and it has proper thermal management for its battery so degradation is mostly a non-issue. There is also the MG ZS EV which is an SUV and can be had new for $41k after the rebate. However, it is still an MG and its level of finish might not be what you consider worth $41k - however from an EV tech perspective it's got thermal management and an LFP pack now so degradation will be minimal and charging to 100% every day is of no concern.

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#2881074 8-Mar-2022 10:56

insane:

I've been looking at this semi-seriously too. It's time for an upgrade for the wifey to replace a good but aging CX-5, and am really struggling to justify spending that much money on a car, or to understand the economics of it. Most I've ever spent on a car is $24K (back in 2012), and even that felt like too much. It's not that I can't go into a dealer and splash out, I just don't like wasting money, where it could be used on an investment or appreciating asset.

Personally, I'm not looking for a financial justification for going electric - I agree at the moment, if one's not talking about a s/h gen 1 Leaf, that's pretty hard to get to stack up. While it's getting easier with a growing range of more 'affordable' EVs and as the price of fuel continues to rise, it'll be many, many moons before it makes financial sense for me to buy a new EV. Using cost as the single driver means I'm probably best to continue to run my diesel car for many years to come.

But, for me, there's more to this than money - I'd like a new car, and I'm simply not interested in getting an ICE (for environmental reasons; that I enjoy driving EVs more than ICE cars; that I like the tech of Teslas...), so need to be (and am) willing to pay that premium for an EV.

But totally get that if making a financially prudent purchase is one's primary driver, then now maybe not the time for a new EV...

RobDickinson

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#2881076 8-Mar-2022 11:00

Obraik:

Well no, it's no point buying an EV to save money if you're going to be spending 10s of thousands more than you normally would. Unless you're driving a lot, it will take many years before you start to break even.

There are some decent second hand non-Leaf EVs starting to appear now, but not in the SUV category. If your wife doesn't mind giving up the SUV, the legacy Ioniq isn't a bad buy and can often be found in the mid 20's. It generally has around 200km of range and it has proper thermal management for its battery so degradation is mostly a non-issue. There is also the MG ZS EV which is an SUV and can be had new for $41k after the rebate. However, it is still an MG and its level of finish might not be what you consider worth $41k - however from an EV tech perspective it's got thermal management and an LFP pack now so degradation will be minimal and charging to 100% every day is of no concern.

If your plan is to spend $32k on a nearly new fossil car a $42k EV makes a lot of sense if you can stretch (so long as it suits your needs/use).

$10k would be saved over 5 years pretty easily and you'll have a new car (well to start anyhow)

insane

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#2881079 8-Mar-2022 11:01

RobDickinson:

insane:

OK that makes sense then, but just in general it appears EV owners don't flip their cars as often. Perhaps they are all counting on owning them for longer to make the economics work?

I think thats more down to options, if you have an EV its likely a leaf, ioniq, i3 or model 3, what are you going to change too?

Fair point! ICE :D

The MG route makes a bit of sense as the 2nd hand Outlander PHEVs for sale under the price of the MG are not optioned well.

At least coming from a CX-5 with:

Xenon headlights
Collision prevention
Parking sensors
Auto headlights
Auto wipers
Leather seats
Heated Seats
Apple Carplay / Android Auto (after market)
BOSE audio
Blind spot monitoring
Reversing camera
Curb Camera
Tinted windows
19" alloys
Dual zone climatecontrol
keyless entry
Usual other safety things.

I'd need to see if the MG has enough space for fit a car seat...

RobDickinson

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#2881081 8-Mar-2022 11:06

My 2014 outlander had

Parking sensors
Auto headlights
Auto wipers
Leather seats
Heated Seats
Apple Carplay / Android Auto (after market) (via custom head unit)
Reversing camera
Tinted windows
19" alloys
Dual zone climatecontrol

tbh it wasnt the highest spec either because I avoided the ones with lanekeeping etc as it wasnt a good system at all

Obraik

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#2881082 8-Mar-2022 11:07

Having been in a MG and CX5 (my partner had one as a work car for a while), the MG feels a lot like the CX5. Even the previous gen of the MG looked a lot like a CX5 from the outside. If you can get car seats in a CX5 you'll get them in the MG

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