Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

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#2832244 14-Dec-2021 15:45

It's not going to be cheap, but buying a 120kW FWD SUV for $150k is hardly a value propitiation.

Guy obviously is willing to pay big $$$ to be an early adopter. What difference is it paying an the same again to get yourself set up to get your fuel from an industrial source...

RobDickinson

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#2832676 15-Dec-2021 08:34

Given Toyotas announcement at least we can put to bed the idea of the hydrogen passenger car.

MikeB4

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#2832710 15-Dec-2021 09:33

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset. As the population density of our cities and suburban areas increases considerably over the next decade or so the use of motor vehicles becomes increasing unsustainable and pointless. An example in Te Awakairangi, the density increase is only just starting and our roads are already becoming overcrowded and as building continues this is only going to worsen. The more the urban roads clog the worse the arterial roads clog and building bigger arterial roads will not solve that issue. In Aotearoa we need to shift our thinking from motor vehicles to alternative personal transport. An increasing number of young persons are already recognising this and not buying motor vehicles or getting a drivers license.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

RobDickinson

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#2832711 15-Dec-2021 09:35

MikeB4:

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset.

I wont disagree but we cant change that fast enough. We cant restructure our cities fast enough, we cant provide clean public transport fast enough, we cant convince people not to use cars fast enough.

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#2832713 15-Dec-2021 09:38

MikeB4:

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset. As the population density of our cities and suburban areas increases considerably over the next decade or so the use of motor vehicles becomes increasing unsustainable and pointless. An example in Te Awakairangi, the density increase is only just starting and our roads are already becoming overcrowded and as building continues this is only going to worsen. The more the urban roads clog the worse the arterial roads clog and building bigger arterial roads will not solve that issue. In Aotearoa we need to shift our thinking from motor vehicles to alternative personal transport. An increasing number of young persons are already recognising this and not buying motor vehicles or getting a drivers license.

i lived in the most liveable city in the world, and visited the second and third most liveable cities in the world.

in peak hour traffic you move at a rate of 1km per hour.

so if we follow the world this is normal, accepted, status quo.

if we somehow manage not to, we'd (have to) be world leaders.

MikeB4

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#2832714 15-Dec-2021 09:44

I don't want to drift into politics but a big problem with planning on these issues is the length of our parliamentary term. Three years is too short as the various parties spend 1.5 years of their term planning for and worrying about the next election and the first year blaming the previous lot. If we increase the term the Meerkats in the Beehive will be less timid about doing real change that maybe less popular in the short term. Unfortunately we don't have the privilege of time available to us to start real change in the entire transport sector.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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RobDickinson

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#2832717 15-Dec-2021 09:45

Its certainly a balance thats wrong to sit in your own passenger car at 1km/hr and for this to be more acceptable that any other option.

Just really demonstrates public transport isnt good enough

MikeB4

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#2832718 15-Dec-2021 09:47

Batman:

i lived in the most liveable city in the world, and visited the second and third most liveable cities in the world.

in peak hour traffic you move at a rate of 1km per hour.

so if we follow the world this is normal, accepted, status quo.

if we somehow manage not to, we'd (have to) be world leaders.

Whats that idiom wrongly attributed too Einstein about repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. We don't need to blunder into the same folly of other nations.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Geektastic

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#2832732 15-Dec-2021 10:11

The problem with public transport is that I have to share it with the public.

In these pandemic times that is likely to be less popular even with people who like sharing usually - which I do not.

frankv

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#2832748 15-Dec-2021 10:53

MikeB4:

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset. As the population density of our cities and suburban areas increases considerably over the next decade or so the use of motor vehicles becomes increasing unsustainable and pointless. An example in Te Awakairangi, the density increase is only just starting and our roads are already becoming overcrowded and as building continues this is only going to worsen. The more the urban roads clog the worse the arterial roads clog and building bigger arterial roads will not solve that issue. In Aotearoa we need to shift our thinking from motor vehicles to alternative personal transport. An increasing number of young persons are already recognising this and not buying motor vehicles or getting a drivers license.

Our problem is that our population density is too low. Without multi-storey apartment blocks, we don't have enough people close enough together to make public transport economically feasible as a *preferred* mode of transport. Without population density, there will never be buses (let alone trains) often enough that you don't become a slave to their timetable.

How do Te Awakairangi residents (or indeed pretty much everyone except surf beach residents) have Saturday at the beach without a car? According to Google Maps... Lug chillibin, umbrella, surfboards, towels to the bus stop, bus to Wellington... lug chillibin etc to the railway platform, half-hour wait, train to Paraparaumu, lug chillibin etc to the bus stop, 20 minute wait, bus to near beach, lug chillibin etc to the beach. 2 hours 22 minutes plus, so pretty much the morning is gone if you catch the 9:20am bus. Hope you don't miss that first bus or you lose another hour. Same rigmarole in reverse to get home again.

Like it or not, you can't participate in much of NZ's lifestyle without a car.

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#2832765 15-Dec-2021 11:21

frankv:

MikeB4:

Be it battery EV, hydrogen EV or Fred Flinstone power we are still clinging to the concept of the motor vehicle being the primary item in mass transport. We need to change that mindset. As the population density of our cities and suburban areas increases considerably over the next decade or so the use of motor vehicles becomes increasing unsustainable and pointless. An example in Te Awakairangi, the density increase is only just starting and our roads are already becoming overcrowded and as building continues this is only going to worsen. The more the urban roads clog the worse the arterial roads clog and building bigger arterial roads will not solve that issue. In Aotearoa we need to shift our thinking from motor vehicles to alternative personal transport. An increasing number of young persons are already recognising this and not buying motor vehicles or getting a drivers license.

Our problem is that our population density is too low. Without multi-storey apartment blocks, we don't have enough people close enough together to make public transport economically feasible as a *preferred* mode of transport. Without population density, there will never be buses (let alone trains) often enough that you don't become a slave to their timetable.

How do Te Awakairangi residents (or indeed pretty much everyone except surf beach residents) have Saturday at the beach without a car? According to Google Maps... Lug chillibin, umbrella, surfboards, towels to the bus stop, bus to Wellington... lug chillibin etc to the railway platform, half-hour wait, train to Paraparaumu, lug chillibin etc to the bus stop, 20 minute wait, bus to near beach, lug chillibin etc to the beach. 2 hours 22 minutes plus, so pretty much the morning is gone if you catch the 9:20am bus. Hope you don't miss that first bus or you lose another hour. Same rigmarole in reverse to get home again.

Like it or not, you can't participate in much of NZ's lifestyle without a car.

AFAIK it is about 8 km to the nearest bus stop from our house here in the Wairarapa. Non peak trains in the Wairarapa have been suspended for two years (yes, years) and replaced by buses if you want to pop in to Wellington...!

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#2832794 15-Dec-2021 12:00

Geektastic:

The problem with public transport is that I have to share it with the public.

In these pandemic times that is likely to be less popular even with people who like sharing usually - which I do not.

that is not the exact problem. there is actually no space in public transport. i don't have a video of Australian trains but this is very close. except in Australia they don't hire packing staff.

MikeB4

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#2832799 15-Dec-2021 12:08

It's the daily commute habits that need to change the most. Why anyone would elect to do the daily accelerator-brake, accelerator-brake, accelerator-brake, accelerator-brake twice a day is beyond me. I wonder of the cars that do that everyday venture beyond the city limits. We need to shift the spend from developing commuter car travel to alternatives and alternatives to cars for longer travel like from Te Whanganui a Tara to the Kapiti coast, Wairarapa and beyond.

We can dream of Hydrogen, battery, flying cars but the reality for the long term is the car will have and should have less and less relevance in a world exhausting finite resources. We currently focus our town planning and intercity planning around the car when we should be focusing on the alternatives.

Work from home and work local should also be high on the planning agendas.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2832806 15-Dec-2021 12:31

the concept here is that megacities are built because of economic centralization. everybody must have all their HQ in one place, economy all happen in one city.

RobDickinson

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#2832814 15-Dec-2021 12:44

MikeB4:

Work from home and work local should also be high on the planning agendas.

A great idea that wont work unless there are strong incentives/penalties for companies.

I can WFH and do my jb 100% effectively, through lockdown I got through more work and spent longer working because no commute

Yet now back in the office even through the previous lockdown because 'we' can squeeze that through essential services description.. sigh.

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