the future is here in Australia: EV vs ICE

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Scott3

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#3006071 5-Dec-2022 17:45

mudguard:

If you get a tow could you shove the brakes on and get a bit of charge at the same time? Tow truck might not like it!!

If you are rope towing, you can. Start the car, and use regen like you would descending a hill, to recharge at 20 - 50kW (depending on speed and model of car). Of course, all this is drag directly added to the tow vehicle.

Plenty of Youtube videos showing this.

Of course, the brands advise against long wheels down towing (they didn't design the cars with infinitely long hill descents in mind), So commercial tow operators will lift the drive wheels of any EV being moved more than a few meters off the ground.

Batman

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#3006085 5-Dec-2022 19:11

Obraik:

SJB:

What happens in NZ at the moment if your EV runs out of juice half way down the SI west coast or say rural Canterbury? Do all the AA vans have charging facilities?

You get it towed to the nearest charger. Other than a Leaf, you'd have to do something very wrong to get yourself in a position where you run out of charge.

you'd be waiting days to get a charger. best to tow on a flat bed if you can find one within 5 hrs of where you are.

i like the tow charge suggestion, but you better be on good terms with your phone a friend who would drive 5 hours to find you ...

Wombat1

586 posts

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#3006132 5-Dec-2022 23:58

Scott3:

There are some other factors that impact EV's in aust:

Generally less environmental concern than in NZ (which seems objectively odd given they are substantially impacted by climate change).
Higher power prices & much cheaper fuel prices than NZ
Longer travel distances than in NZ.
No charge.net / West family (They put a lot of money into building out 50kW fast chargers back in a time when Aussie had very little)
Luxury car tax (33% of value over AU$71,849 or AU$84,916 for fuel efficient vehicles currently), makes purchasing high priced EV's (BMW iX, Tesla S & X etc), much more expensive than in NZ.
Relatively few incentives compared to NZ. See table at bottom, nothing close to NZ's $7650 rebate.
Some states are already taxing EV's "The more expensive EVs in the market get hit with Luxury Car Tax (LCT) and back in 2021, the Victorian government passed a tariff that taxes EV drivers 2.5 cents per kilometre travelled and 2 cents for PHEV vehicles."
Concern about the stability of the power (driven from the 2016 south aust blackout which impacted 1.7m people).
Distorted information - Sky News is only 24/7 news channel, and includes content bad enough to get it banned from youtube.

Some interesting points, however I dont think electric vehicles in Aus are as unpopular as most people here claim. Tesla sales here for example have boomed in the last year. Then there is the very popular MG ZS EV, they so popular now that I see a few every day. Really nice cars and nice price tag of only $44,990 (driveaway). Heck, even been seeing a couple of Porsche Taycan's.

My point was really about the Nissan leaf, and why it has not been adopted here. Not really EV's in general.

Where did you get your figures about higher power prices in Aus? I hear this being thrown around quiet often. We pay less for power here in QLD in 3 months than what our monthly power bill use to be in NZ.

Also regarding the LCT, from my calculations new Teslas here are still cheaper even with the LCT, and no "government rebate".

I appreciate your points but I think you are very misinformed, or possibly a little biased. Appreciate your reply anyway.

Scott3

3963 posts

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#3006134 6-Dec-2022 00:53

Wombat1:

Scott3:

There are some other factors that impact EV's in aust:

Generally less environmental concern than in NZ (which seems objectively odd given they are substantially impacted by climate change).
Higher power prices & much cheaper fuel prices than NZ
Longer travel distances than in NZ.
No charge.net / West family (They put a lot of money into building out 50kW fast chargers back in a time when Aussie had very little)
Luxury car tax (33% of value over AU$71,849 or AU$84,916 for fuel efficient vehicles currently), makes purchasing high priced EV's (BMW iX, Tesla S & X etc), much more expensive than in NZ.
Relatively few incentives compared to NZ. See table at bottom, nothing close to NZ's $7650 rebate.
Some states are already taxing EV's "The more expensive EVs in the market get hit with Luxury Car Tax (LCT) and back in 2021, the Victorian government passed a tariff that taxes EV drivers 2.5 cents per kilometre travelled and 2 cents for PHEV vehicles."
Concern about the stability of the power (driven from the 2016 south aust blackout which impacted 1.7m people).
Distorted information - Sky News is only 24/7 news channel, and includes content bad enough to get it banned from youtube.
Some interesting points, however I dont think electric vehicles in Aus are as unpopular as most people here claim. Tesla sales here for example have boomed in the last year. Then there is the very popular MG ZS EV, they so popular now that I see a few every day. Really nice cars and nice price tag of only $44,990 (driveaway). Heck, even been seeing a couple of Porsche Taycan's.

My point was really about the Nissan leaf, and why it has not been adopted here. Not really EV's in general.

Where did you get your figures about higher power prices in Aus? I hear this being thrown around quiet often. We pay less for power here in QLD in 3 months than what our monthly power bill use to be in NZ.

Also regarding the LCT, from my calculations new Teslas here are still cheaper even with the LCT, and no "government rebate".

I appreciate your points but I think you are very misinformed, or possibly a little biased. Appreciate your reply anyway.

EV's may be booming in popularity in Australia, but sales still lag NZ NZ on a per capita basis.

The two most popular models November sales for both countries:

Aus / NZ

Model Y: 1805 / 1099

Atto3: 845 / 475

So despite 5x NZ's population, sales are less than double that of NZ.

On power prices, this will vary by location, but as an example source (of household kWh prices in USD terms):

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Australia/electricity_prices/#:~:text=Australia%2C%20March%202022%3A%20The%20price,of%20power%2C%20distribution%20and%20taxes.

In Auckland I pay NZ 17.24c/kWh (incl GST) for my power + 231.90c/day connection charge if you want to compare with Queensland. Never lived in Aust, so haven't done a direct comparison before.

On Tesla pricing in aust:

Model Y base in Queensland: AUD76,249 drive away = NZD80,996.26. Same car is $69,593 after rebate here.

Model Y performance (no options in Queensland is AUD107,319 drive away = NZD 114,009.91. Same car here is $110,943 drive away (not rebate eligible due to price).

Wombat1

586 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#3007051 7-Dec-2022 20:20

Scott3:

EV's may be booming in popularity in Australia, but sales still lag NZ NZ on a per capita basis.

I get that, and its mostly due to the lack of the cheap Nissan leafs here.

Scott3: On Tesla pricing in aust:

Model Y base in Queensland: AUD76,249 drive away = NZD80,996.26. Same car is $69,593 after rebate here.

Model Y performance (no options in Queensland is AUD107,319 drive away = NZD 114,009.91. Same car here is $110,943 drive away (not rebate eligible due to price).

Actually in QLD the one I am looking at is AU$72,300. Drive-away.

Wombat1

586 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#3007052 7-Dec-2022 20:20

Scott3:

In Auckland I pay NZ 17.24c/kWh (incl GST) for my power + 231.90c/day connection charge if you want to compare with Queensland. Never lived in Aust, so haven't done a direct comparison before.

Electricity sure does seem much more expensive in NZ, well NZ households use much more of it and that could be why the cents/kWh are maybe cheaper in NZ? There is always a thread about it here on GZ where everybody seems to be looking for the best electricity deals. But I suppose its all relative, here we use hardly anything and my bill in $48 per month. Its so low we never think about it and there is no need for electricity shopping. But I have solar and am selling back electricity to the grid at 17cents per KwH, my rates are 25.817 c/kWh anytime, and 19.976 c/kWh controlled. Every day I am generating more power than I use. its all thanks to the Queensland sun, this would never have been possible in Wellington. So yes my rates are higher but my electricity is basically free every day between 7:00am and 3pm.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3007058 7-Dec-2022 20:56

Batman:

Obraik:

You get it towed to the nearest charger. Other than a Leaf, you'd have to do something very wrong to get yourself in a position where you run out of charge.

you'd be waiting days to get a charger. best to tow on a flat bed if you can find one within 5 hrs of where you are.

i like the tow charge suggestion, but you better be on good terms with your phone a friend who would drive 5 hours to find you ...

Getting towed to a charger is what I said in the quoted post?

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Scott3

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#3007112 7-Dec-2022 22:07

Wombat1:

Actually in QLD the one I am looking at is AU$72,300. Drive-away.

Tesla is but sneaky about how they advertise their prices. (but have improved a lot since they would have the price "after estimated fuel savings" as the most prominent value).

For Queensland:

Batman

Mad Scientist
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#3007139 8-Dec-2022 05:49

Scott3:

On Tesla pricing in aust:

Model Y base in Queensland: AUD76,249 drive away = NZD80,996.26. Same car is $69,593 after rebate here.

Model Y performance (no options in Queensland is AUD107,319 drive away = NZD 114,009.91. Same car here is $110,943 drive away (not rebate eligible due to price).

same price structure here with EV6

the high end model are costing more and subsidizing the base model in NZ

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