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Scott3
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  #2989225 28-Oct-2022 13:19
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afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers. I'm sure they would claim the clean car rebate and the fringe ben fit tax exception too

https://youtu.be/2E9TUQopIwc

 

Frankly I doubt it.

 

At this point a lot of the "ute tax" augment has just become an easy way to attack the government for some.

 

There will always be something wrong with the EV utes in the eye's of that brigade. And the existence of diesel utes like the LDV T60 bi-turbo 4x4, which loudly advertises "no co2 tax to pay" has done little to deter them.

 

-----

 

 

 

On EV ute's, we have had orders for the LDV eT60 open for quite some time now. The website has arrived before Christmas 2022 in large letters.

 

 

 

 

Sadly the website / marketing isn't that reassuring:

 

  • Conflicting information on main landing page regarding deposits.
  • When you click the order link there is a note that the wheels shown in the images (the same ones shown in the prior landing page & on the spec sheet, are an optional extra)
  • Spec sheet still has the same issues it has had for months

     

    • shows a front-mounted format motor in the image but states RWD
    • Inconsistent power numbers (150kW / 130kW)
  • Output rating of AC ports not disclosed (but website mentions uses drills as the example, so it should be at least 600W)

 

But on the positive side, questions will go away when deliveries start which is soon.

 

Frankly the eT60 is likely to appeal more to the anti ute tax brigade, as it is a closer match to the common Thai-built utes. Body on frame, passable ground clearance, solid rear axle, styling like peers. Still, critics will point to the obvious issues: slow DC charging, unsprung motor, poor payload, poor tow rating, poor range etc.

 

 

 

-----

 

On the Radar RD6, this is unibody (car based vehicle). Gives a lot of advantages, but perceived as less durable, and means the likes of fitting a flat deck is off the menu. Also it is a little smaller.

 

Similar to the Ford Maverik, which is sold in north America, but no here.

 

Like the Maverik, the RD6 will likely appeal more to lifestyle buyers (granted a big segment of ute buyers), and like the Maverik it is likely set up to better suit that market. Giant sun roof would be the first example, not a feature that fleet buyers target... It has full independent suspension (better for comfort), and likely has a softer suspension setup (and less payload). Ground clearance is low, but unlike the LDV, AWD is offered. Launch version is going to be 200kW RWD, with cheaper 149kW and (I assume) AWD 298kw versions to come. The latter has roughly double the power of a current Hilux.

 

 

 

I imagine it would sell well if offered here (especially if they can get the AWD under the rebate cap). People have various reasons for buying utes (everything from wanting the FBT advantages, to appearance, to wanting to keep their smelly / dangerous / dirty things out of the cabin), and a I imagine a decent chunk are wiling to give up the likes of payload for better ride comfort.

 

 

 

 




afe66
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  #2989265 28-Oct-2022 15:35
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GV27:

HarmLessSolutions:


See page 8: https://www.ird.govt.nz/-/media/project/ir/home/documents/forms-and-guides/ir400---ir499/ir409/ir409-2022.pdf?modified=20220407231310&modified=20220407231310



This doesn't mean there is a specific exemption for utes. This is one of the most common FBT errors/misunderstandings, to the extent that the IRD has a specific warning on their website about it. 


Double cab utes

A common error we see is the FBT treatment of double cab utes. Utes may be considered work related as they are dual purpose vehicles, however this does not mean they are automatically exempt from FBT. These vehicles still need to meet the conditions above.




Yes but a car must have the rear seats removed permanently but not a twin cab ute.

So car seating four people isn't eligible for excemption but a ute seating 4 people might be. A number of medical friends have bought UTEs for their business fo this reason. They are nearly also often on call and we're advised by their accountants to buy utes

GV27
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  #2989272 28-Oct-2022 16:01
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afe66: 

 

So car seating four people isn't eligible for excemption but a ute seating 4 people might be. A number of medical friends have bought UTEs for their business fo this reason. They are nearly also often on call and we're advised by their accountants to buy utes

 

Again, the exemption isn't because they're utes. They still have fulfil all the work vehicle criteria to be considered work vehicles. 




SaltyNZ
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  #2989274 28-Oct-2022 16:08
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afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers.

 

 

 

No, because it's only 10% reality and 90% boomer hate.





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Scott3
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  #2989275 28-Oct-2022 16:10
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GV27:

 

HarmLessSolutions:

 

See page 8: https://www.ird.govt.nz/-/media/project/ir/home/documents/forms-and-guides/ir400---ir499/ir409/ir409-2022.pdf?modified=20220407231310&modified=20220407231310

 

 

This doesn't mean there is a specific exemption for utes. This is one of the most common FBT errors/misunderstandings, to the extent that the IRD has a specific warning on their website about it. 

 

Double cab utes

 

A common error we see is the FBT treatment of double cab utes. Utes may be considered work related as they are dual purpose vehicles, however this does not mean they are automatically exempt from FBT. These vehicles still need to meet the conditions above.

 

 

There is not a specific exception for utes, but (when numerous other criteria sigh as sign writing are met), ute's are the only (non taxi) 5 seat vehicles that qualify for FBT free commuting between home and work.

 

Sure you can get a hatchback / wagon / van to qualify, but (as per the other comment) they are restricted to one row of seating, so any seating behind the front row needs to be disabled, which is quite a limitation on it's use.

 

I am reasonably fond of ute's, but they should be competing on a level playing field. Favorable treatment of utes (such as preferential FBT treatment, and preferential treatment under the clean car standard) distorts the market, which I view as bad.

 

 

 

FBT thing is an easy fix. Either restrict qualifying utes to a single row of seats (as per hatchbacks, wagons & vans), or allow all vehicles to qualify.


ShrubMonkey
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  #2989283 28-Oct-2022 16:30
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SaltyNZ:

 

afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers.

 

 

 

No, because it's only 10% reality and 90% boomer hate.

 

 

 

 

I can never understand why its ok to discriminate and generalise  based on age, but if I said the hate was coming from an ethnic group, or a religious group (Kanye anyone), a group with a certain sexual preference, or even women for example, I would be smacked by the ban hammer? 


Scott3
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  #2989284 28-Oct-2022 16:30
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GV27:

 

afe66: 

 

So car seating four people isn't eligible for excemption but a ute seating 4 people might be. A number of medical friends have bought UTEs for their business fo this reason. They are nearly also often on call and we're advised by their accountants to buy utes

 

Again, the exemption isn't because they're utes. They still have fulfil all the work vehicle criteria to be considered work vehicles. 

 

 

Per IRD's Fringe benefit tax guide Utes are listed as a vehicle type that "may" qualify. Note that these vehicle types are the only (non taxi) vehicle type listed with usable rear seats. This is the key issue.

 

 

The requirement that the vehicle be configured around carrying goods, creates an incentive for businesses (such as professional services) to buy a vehicle that meets those requirements, even if the roll it is deployed in is unlikely to utilize those capabilities.

 

 


 
 
 

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richms
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  #2989315 28-Oct-2022 17:14
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IRD say may qualify. They also let others qualify if a sedan is needed for reasons. They can decide that those in the list that may qualify do not qualify. 





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Dingbatt
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  #2991025 2-Nov-2022 15:23
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Just got an email from Chargenet introducing their new tariffs (effective 30 Nov 22). For the ones that matter, 80c/kWh for fast DC charging (25-75kW - they call it “destination”) with no per minute fee anymore,  and 85c/kWh for Ultra fast DC charging (76+kW - “enroute”). Then $1/min idle fees.

 

So effectively the same price as Tesla SCs now.

 

I wonder if Genesis’ lower rate EVerywhere plan will still apply?





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Obraik
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  #2991026 2-Nov-2022 15:25
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Pricier than Supercharging even. I believe the most expensive Superchargers are at 80c/kWh.





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RunningMan
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  #2991088 2-Nov-2022 15:45
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Wow, depending on charging speed, that's about a 50% increase in price. Hope that electricty is the best out there and the car's going to go real good...


jonathan18
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  #2991091 2-Nov-2022 15:49
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The removal of the per minute charge means there’s less incentive to move on once charging slows down (or, equally, less of a financial penalty for slower charging cars like G1 Leafs). This could result in people charging for longer, but I guess this is hopefully balanced to some extent by fewer cars remaining plugged in once charging completes thanks to the idle fees.

wellygary
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  #2991095 2-Nov-2022 15:52
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Obraik:

 

Pricier than Supercharging even. I believe the most expensive Superchargers are at 80c/kWh.

 

 

@17kwh/100km, 80c/Kwh is ~$13/100kwh.. at a 91 price of $2.50/litre, that's ~5l/100km....

 

Starts to really erode the economics if you don't have access to home charging....


jonathan18
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  #2991100 2-Nov-2022 15:58
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wellygary: Starts to really erode the economics if you don't have access to home charging....



I’d be interested to know what proportion of EV owners in NZ don’t charge at home for a significant proportion of their regular charging; I imagine it’s pretty small. I think a much larger affected group will be those who rely on ‘fast’ charging (eg, the typical 50kW ChargeNet ones) on a regular basis due to either commuting long distances and/or having a low-range car.

Dingbatt
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  #2991105 2-Nov-2022 16:01
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Yes, interesting.

 

Our 91 petrol is currently $2.42/l (with the reduced govt excise at moment). So that means my Model 3 would cost approx 12.1c/km when running on ultra electrons vs. 12.6c/km for the Camry Hybrid it replaced. Then, eventually you will need to add RUC for the EV and the petrol excise going back up to its ‘normal’ rate would mean there’s still going to be parity in running cost.

 

Glad the majority of my charging is at home, but the inevitable ‘adjustment’ of domestic electricity charges can’t be too far off.

 

Edit: I obviously took too long composing because the above comments are pretty much the same as mine.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


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