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eracode
Smpl Mnmlst
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  #2806714 3-Nov-2021 13:58
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tieke:

 

Lowest price indeed, as this article about the PPP contract review points out, the price that the contractors had to agree to was not only pulled out of thin air, there was only a 75% chance that our government-owned road crews would be able to meet this price, and they don't have to make a profit. Private companies would be able to do it so cheaply because they would be magically "innovative and efficient". Strangely enough, many potential contractors weren't too keen on bidding on a project where you were almost certainly going to lose money, unless you could renegotiate halfway through:

 

"The bidders weren’t so keen. One interviewee called the price “demonstrably unrealistic”, and another said that it was “dubious” whether it actually achieved value for money for the Crown.

 

Setting the tender price so low meant firms were tendering for a project knowing that it was unrealistic to be able to deliver it at that cost. The review noted that setting the price low essentially “double counted” cost savings because the public sector figure was already required to consider the most efficient and cost-effective way of doing things."

 

 

Simply ridiculous. No wonder the contractors cut corners (no pun intended), modified machinery, did a crap job, etc. This is sad and I find it depressing. We should be better than this.





Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.




tieke
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  #2806736 3-Nov-2021 14:48
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Bung: AFAIK there are no Government owned road crews.

 

Fair enough, you're right in that if it had stayed a public development as initially intended, the government would have contracted out the various road crews etc :) The exact wording was "[The Max Price/Affordability Threshold] that was put out to tender was at a much lower cost than what it was believed the public sector could deliver the project for. Set at P75 for the public sector price, that meant there was a 75 per cent probability of the public sector building and running Transmission Gully for the price that it was put out to tender."

 

 


jamesrt
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  #2807974 5-Nov-2021 11:58
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martyyn
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  #2807977 5-Nov-2021 12:18
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"The most likely reason for the road being delayed again would be incomplete resource consent documents, Gliddon said."

 

That's the set up right there.


wellygary
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  #2807979 5-Nov-2021 12:20
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jamesrt:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/126897486/waka-kotahi-wants-transmission-gully-open-by-christmas--but-it-could-be-next-year-too

 

Headline says it all really - no-one knows if it'll open.  (I've given up on "when".)

 

 

The actual PR is here, and its basically a great big, "Don't blame us" its someone else's fault from NZTA... 

 

https://nzta.govt.nz/media-releases/waka-kotahi-pushing-for-transmission-gully-to-open-as-soon-as-possible/

 

Now this would be fine and good, except NZTA had  announced a contractual date of 27th September, - now the Lockdowns blew that out of the water, but Wellington entered level 2 on 7 September and has been there for nearly two months, 

 

The lockdown let the Contractor out from the committed date, and NZTA haven't been able to get them to agree to a new one

 

I've copied some of the appropriate lines from the press statement and included a quick translation 

 

 

 

"Waka Kotahi wants the road open before the Christmas holidays, but achieving that will depend on the ability of the road’s builder, the CPB HEB Joint Venture, to meet critical requirements necessary to ensure that the road is safe for motorists and completed to a high standard."

 

Its not out Fault its up to  CPB HEB Joint Venture

 

"As well as finishing the physical works for the motorway to open, CPB HEB JV also needs to meet a large number of safety and quality tests."

 

Its not out Fault its up to  CPB HEB Joint Venture

 

"The remaining 44 tasks will require sign off from Greater Wellington Regional Council (GW) and/or the relevant territorial authorities.

 

Its not out Fault its the Regional Council or some other council, 

 

"under the PPP contract, it is ultimately the responsibility of WGP and CPB HEB to deliver a road that meets the safety, quality and environmental standards agreed in the project agreement, and expected by the public. "

 

Just in case you missed it earlier, its not our Fault its up to  WGP and CPB HEB Joint Venture

 

"At the end of the 25-year operating period, responsibility for the road passes to Waka Kotahi.”

 

It will be our fault in 25 years, but not now


naggyman
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  #2807983 5-Nov-2021 12:38
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New flyover published as well. This is already very outdated

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4edcZ6hYazI





Morgan French-Stagg

 

morgan.french.net.nz

 

 


 
 
 
 

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PolicyGuy
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  #2807992 5-Nov-2021 12:52
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I think the basic problem here is the nature of the Public Private Finance arrangement.

 

Waka Kotahi don't employ the builders directly, so they can't hold their feet to the fire for a completion date, all they can do is try to put the squeeze on the CPB HEB JV corporate entity.
However, Waka Kotahi is organisationally terrified that the CPB HEB JV could just walk away and say "see you in court", even at this late stage. This would leave Waka Kotahi with an unfinished TG and no obvious way of finishing it. The JV has allegedly threatened to bail on more than one occasion in the past.

 

The whole this is the direct result of politics. Steven Joyce and Bill English believed fervently in the "public sector bad, private sector good" mantra and would not entertain a conventional government-built, government-owned project structure.
And so, here we are ...


nickb800
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  #2808018 5-Nov-2021 13:49
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PolicyGuy:

 

I think the basic problem here is the nature of the Public Private Finance arrangement.

 

Waka Kotahi don't employ the builders directly, so they can't hold their feet to the fire for a completion date, all they can do is try to put the squeeze on the CPB HEB JV corporate entity.
However, Waka Kotahi is organisationally terrified that the CPB HEB JV could just walk away and say "see you in court", even at this late stage. This would leave Waka Kotahi with an unfinished TG and no obvious way of finishing it. The JV has allegedly threatened to bail on more than one occasion in the past.

 

The whole this is the direct result of politics. Steven Joyce and Bill English believed fervently in the "public sector bad, private sector good" mantra and would not entertain a conventional government-built, government-owned project structure.
And so, here we are ...

 

 

Also a contractor (well part of the JV) with a fairly ruthless negotiation playbook (CPB) - e.g. when they weren't happy with negotiations here, they started firing employees/subbies. One point worth noting is that in the post-COVID negotiations, NZTA agreed to make relief payments directly to the construction JV (as opposed to WGP). This means that NZTA and the JV do have a more direct contractual relationship now (and presumably that COVID relief payment is NZTA's main bargaining chip as it was predicated on a September 2021 road opening), although potentially that complicates things by making it a three-way NZTA-JV-WGP negotiation. 

 

I don't think NZTA have a great set of options at this point in time:

 

1) Hurry things up by giving in to the negotiations/throwing money at the contractor (I don't think this would be a good use of public funds, as much as I hate being stuck in traffic at Pukerua Bay. And arguably it may not be the 'right' thing to do)

 

2) Play hardball in negotiations - then the contractor slows down work (lays off subcontractors - see above) and/or throws more lawyers at the problem (not a productive use of private or public money). 

 

3) Play super-hardball in negotiations and kick-out the contractor, leaving the road to gather dust for 12 months until someone else (probably Fletchers) can tender and gear up to finish the job. Not sure if this is possible within the contractual framework with the JV or WGP. 


wellygary
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  #2808060 5-Nov-2021 14:57
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nickb800:

 

I don't think NZTA have a great set of options at this point in time:

 

1) Hurry things up by giving in to the negotiations/throwing money at the contractor (I don't think this would be a good use of public funds, as much as I hate being stuck in traffic at Pukerua Bay. And arguably it may not be the 'right' thing to do)

 

2) Play hardball in negotiations - then the contractor slows down work (lays off subcontractors - see above) and/or throws more lawyers at the problem (not a productive use of private or public money). 

 

3) Play super-hardball in negotiations and kick-out the contractor, leaving the road to gather dust for 12 months until someone else (probably Fletchers) can tender and gear up to finish the job. Not sure if this is possible within the contractual framework with the JV or WGP. 

 

 

The general consensus around the 27th September date was that WGP would do the bare minimum to satisfy the contractual requirement, so they could collect the completion bonus, 

 

Then they would subsequently pay the regional council nickel and dime resource consent breech fines.... and deal with the rest in court....

 

Now the completion carrot is gone,  its likely they will not sign up to any completion date that increases non essential cost...

 

 

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2809904 9-Nov-2021 14:37
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Came through Kapiti yesterday there has been some real progress made at MacKays Crossing





Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.


DjShadow
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  #2811220 11-Nov-2021 18:47
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Hopefully this means we're getting closer to the opening

 


 
 
 
 

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DjShadow
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DonH
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  #2811573 12-Nov-2021 13:48
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Anyone who's toilet trained knows the job's not finished until the paperwork is done.





People hear what they see. - Doris Day


PolicyGuy
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  #2816024 20-Nov-2021 09:01
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There's a sort of an apologia today on Stuff/Dominion-Post from Sir Brian Roche, the Chair of Waka Kotahi

 

Transmission Gully is one of the greatest feats of roading infrastructure we have undertaken in New Zealand. It was always going to be difficult to build and deliver but we never thought it would be this hard.
...
Exactly when it will open is the question I’m asked more than any other. And one I can’t give a definitive answer to – that in itself is extremely frustrating but regrettably unavoidable at this point.
Waka Kotahi wants the road open by Christmas 2021 and we’ve made this clear to our contractor, Wellington Gateway Partnership (WGP), and its builder, CPB HEB Joint Venture.

 

Unlike every roading project before it in New Zealand, Transmission Gully is being delivered under a Public Private Partnership (PPP). That has created challenges and complications that we’ve had to navigate, and added to the delays.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington-top-stories/127033506/transmission-gully-the-christmas-present-commuters-are-eager-to-open


floydbloke

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  #2820862 29-Nov-2021 09:19
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Haha....  but... you promised in this youtube clip from RNZ just over a year ago.

 

 

 





Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.


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