EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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6757 posts

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#3122667 1-Sep-2023 13:01

HarmLessSolutions:

Worst case scenario but all too likely. So far as addressing climate change our farmers are going to be forced to tow the line *in the near future (probably the next electoral term) as their international markets will soon deny them access if they don't. Watch the government of the time, and the farmers and processors, squirm over that!

So far as a 'rebate' for EVs the next best thing is charging them from your own PV. Sunlight can't be taxed** and PV has the best ROI if you can consume a substantial percentage of your own generation (which EV charging does) as self consumption offsets electricity that you would otherwise have to buy. Running an EV, or in our case 2 EVs on sunshine at ~2c/km (based on lost export potential price) is a great feeling environmentally and economically.

*Where is the line being towed to? (AFAIK the saying is “Toe the line”.) I love how zealots are down on NZ farmers. Arguably the most efficient in the world and the only thing keeping the country afloat. The countries that demand action will be the ones that use it as an excuse to protect their domestic protein producers.

** Would it be more accurate to say “Sunlight isn’t taxed at the moment”?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

SaltyNZ

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#3122672 1-Sep-2023 13:17

Dingbatt:

the only thing keeping the country afloat.

Surely that's more something to be worried about rather than celebrated? Especially when those farmers don't want to do what their customers want them to do. Or when the Chinese aren't buying? We engineers call that a "single point of failure".

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HarmLessSolutions

975 posts

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#3122681 1-Sep-2023 13:31

Dingbatt:

HarmLessSolutions:

Worst case scenario but all too likely. So far as addressing climate change our farmers are going to be forced to tow the line *in the near future (probably the next electoral term) as their international markets will soon deny them access if they don't. Watch the government of the time, and the farmers and processors, squirm over that!

So far as a 'rebate' for EVs the next best thing is charging them from your own PV. Sunlight can't be taxed** and PV has the best ROI if you can consume a substantial percentage of your own generation (which EV charging does) as self consumption offsets electricity that you would otherwise have to buy. Running an EV, or in our case 2 EVs on sunshine at ~2c/km (based on lost export potential price) is a great feeling environmentally and economically.

*Where is the line being towed to? (AFAIK the saying is “Toe the line”.) I love how zealots are down on NZ farmers. Arguably the most efficient in the world and the only thing keeping the country afloat. The countries that demand action will be the ones that use it as an excuse to protect their domestic protein producers.

** Would it be more accurate to say “Sunlight isn’t taxed at the moment”?

Oops a typo, my bad.

But the denial of export markets isn't me getting down on the farmers, it is statement of reality that as our primary product marketing is increasingly not fit for purpose. Our customers will increasingly use this as a market access restriction together with the food miles handicap we must also address. Reality will dawn on all involved when their markets shrink.

As far as our isolation is concerned we sorely need to reduce the amount of products that we export in minimally improved (i.e. value added) condition. The meat industry realised this years back as chilled carcasses gave way to higher value premium cuts yet we still see mountains of whole logs at our seaports and milk being exported with only its water content removed making us a price taker in these and far too many other exports rather than minimising the freight component of these products by exporting container loads of lumber/furniture or fine cheeses respectively. The efficiency of our farming practices is debateable but their end value status in not.

Over the coming decade (if not electoral term) New Zealand will see our export markets increasingly restricted by the demands required to comply with emissions reduction. If our farmers, processors and regulators don't toe the line in this regard our economic viability as an exporter will suffer accordingly, and that will be in addition to the increasing frequency of climate related disruption to both us and our target markets, together with the international economic disruptions that can be expected.

I'm curious though is to how you suggest sunlight might be taxed. Like the rain that we collect and use on our rural property sunshine comes from the sky unmetered. Other than in the case of disincentivisation of PV grid connection and export by some lines companies together with dismal distributed generation export tariffs its taxation seems rather difficult, if not impossible.

A bit off topic overall but as always EVs, PV and environmental factors are inextricably linked.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Dingbatt

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#3122723 1-Sep-2023 16:31

HarmLessSolutions:

I'm curious though is to how you suggest sunlight might be taxed.

It was more of a light-hearted commentary on politician’s propensity for finding new ways to extract money from us.

In the same ways as fuel excise revenue has dropped as ICE cars have got more efficient (and more electrified vehicles are having an impact). So the shortfall must be made up from elsewhere. I’m all for PV and am disappointed that it isn’t incentivised more. I would like nothing more than to be able to “run my car on sunshine”. If you are an exporter of electricity to the grid and money needs to be found to fund its maintenance, then I could see they may levy net power exporters. In effect, taxing sunshine.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#3122725 1-Sep-2023 16:37

I see that Stuff website today seem to think they have found some sort of leak for the new 'facelifted' version of the Model 3. https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132858584/leaked-is-this-the-new-tesla-model-3

But you can view it properly at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ6zIHHMlSs .IMO the front and back is a big improvement. I just wonder when the new model y will come out as it does look old and dated compared to the new look 3 IMO. Plus you get more updated tech in the new one.

mattwnz

20164 posts

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#3122728 1-Sep-2023 16:40

afe66: I'm expecting to be treated like diesel owners and no other rebate.
Complete reversal of current arrangement so the farming lobby can get revenge for "ute tax"

As far a climate change goes we are screwed if ppl cant wear a mask to avoid dieing there no way we will do anything that really affects us.

Such anger over not being able to claim a rebate for cars that don't exist (in their view) Don't get me started about the number of company farm cars parked outside the stadium when the highlanders play.... Work vehicle indeed.

I was surprised that just a small SUV like a RAV 4 petrol is taxed, but if you spend more and get a hybrid it is tax neural . So not sure why farmers thing that they are specifically being targeted, it is all political IMO. There will be EV Utes in NZ before too long. There are already some really good ones out there.

empacher48

368 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3122729 1-Sep-2023 16:41

mattwnz:

I see that Stuff website today seem to think they have found some sort of leak for the new 'facelifted' version of the Model 3. https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132858584/leaked-is-this-the-new-tesla-model-3

But you can view it properly at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ6zIHHMlSs . I just wonder when the new model y will come out as it does look old and dated compared to the new look 3 IMO. Plus you get more updated tech in the new one.

The new model 3 is available to order from Tesla NZ on the website in both SR and LR versions, no performance as yet. With delivery first quarter next year.

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HarmLessSolutions

975 posts

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#3122730 1-Sep-2023 16:42

Dingbatt:

HarmLessSolutions:

I'm curious though is to how you suggest sunlight might be taxed.

.....If you are an exporter of electricity to the grid and money needs to be found to fund its maintenance, then I could see they may levy net power exporters. In effect, taxing sunshine.

That would serve as further incentive for those of us with PV to design our systems to increase self consumption of our own generation with the logical end result being going off grid. Counterproductive on a national generation capacity basis especially as it shifts the fixed costs of maintaining the grid infrastructure onto a reduced amount of consumers, who then are charged more for their electricity, which then works to incentivise more of them towards PV, etc. It's commonly referred to as the power utilities death spiral. Also V2G/V2H is just over the horizon which will make PV self sufficiency as an off grid option all the more feasable, without the added cost of a static home battery (i.e. Powerwall).

As previously discussed in regards to the RUC system the costs of maintaining and developing roading is most equitably done by way of a distance based charge rather than trying to extract it from fuel levies.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

tukapa1

725 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3123197 3-Sep-2023 09:56

johno1234:

Traditional mechanics can't really complain about any modern BEV car reliability. There's hardly any moving or serviceable parts in them compared ICE vehicles. A NZ new (i.e. standard NZ model, not imported 2nd hand) Chinese BEV such as MG, Atto and GWM is going to require far less maintenance than any ICE vehicle and they come with lengthy warranties.

He's not anti EV - he's on his second Tesla, originally a 3 then replaced with a Y when they became available. He is suspect of new entrants into the market. Always used to call Hyundai 'high and dry' as that's what they would leave you. Of course nothing wrong with Hyundai now and they're proven in the market. His anti BYD/MG stance is more cos they're not proven and he thinks there's a chance you'll be left with an expensive paper weight in 5 years if you buy BYD/MG.

MikeB4

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#3123555 4-Sep-2023 13:37

We were driving through Te Awakairangi (Hutt city) when a BYD Han or Seal drove by in the opposite direction. I was not aware that these were in Aotearoa of if we were even scheduled to receive these. It is a very nice looking vehicle with a very good presence on the road.

Dingbatt

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#3123566 4-Sep-2023 14:37

There was a BYD Seal at the Newmarket store last week, they said it was heading off down country, so maybe it was that one?

It wasn’t available for test drive as it is a preproduction vehicle, but I was able to sit in it and have a bit of a play with the infotainment and displays. The seats were quite firm but had good support and plenty of adjustment. It was the top spec (dual motor long range) model according to the salesperson and while no pricing has been announced, I got a nod when I suggested north of $100K. So it’s going to be competing with the top spec Kia and Hyundai EVs as well as the Mach-E, Enyaq and even the BMW i4e40. It was nicely finished inside and out. Probably the most disappointing thing was the displays still had a hint of ‘cheap android tablet’ about them. For $100K+ I would have expected something sharper and higher res.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Johnk

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#3123602 4-Sep-2023 16:57

Dingbatt:

There was a BYD Seal.... It was the top spec (dual motor long range) model according to the salesperson and while no pricing has been announced, I got a nod when I suggested north of $100K.

Wow, that is up there for sure!

Comparing the other RHD market BYDs and Tesla M3 pricing...

Standard Range Dynamic - $HK309,000 ($66,465 NZD)

Extended Range Dynamic - $HK347,000 ($74,643 NZD)

AWD Performance - $HK377,980 ($80,895 NZD)

Model 3 RHD -$HK320,800 ($68,820 NZD) and tesla manage to bring that same car here and sell it cheaper at $67,900! - Note new model pricing

I was hoping to go to the bank and get myself in a Seal, but if the top range is north of the 100k mark, I presume the entry model will only just make it under the 80k rebate, making it just too much for what it is IMHO.

johno1234

2808 posts

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#3124707 7-Sep-2023 16:52

Do you need to be a little bit of a geek to like Tesla? Not heard anything terrible here, mostly positive. However there's an undercurrent of Tesla hate out there, and I see this in the news today:\

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2023/09/new-zealanders-share-regrets-over-buying-teslas.html

RunningMan

8961 posts

Uber Geek

#3124717 7-Sep-2023 17:08

I suspect the Tesla hate you refers to is actually EV ignorance and/or hate in general. Media, politicians frequently refer to Tesla instead of an EV generally - it's just the most commonly known brand.

johno1234

2808 posts

Uber Geek

#3124721 7-Sep-2023 17:11

Yeah. They are technical though and I suspect some people just don't adapt easily.

Also suspect there's a degree of Elon Musk backlash going on.

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