Zero Tolerance Limits now

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#2554574 1-Sep-2020 07:43

Jase2985:

everyone has missed the point that all the speed measuring equipment has an accuracy related to it, so the police couldn't possibly enforce a zero tolerance due to said accuracy. they would be up for a few law suits if they started ticketing people at 1-3kp/h over the limit.

There are no lawsuits in NZ (mostly). People could defend the charges, but the cost of doing so would dwarf the small fine. The equipment is gazetted and certified for use so that argument won't fly (unless somethings gone wrong because the certificate has expired or similar), and there are practical reasons why the device will in most cases read lower than actual speed (i.e. Doppler effect).

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

clevedon

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#2554585 1-Sep-2020 08:09

frankv: I'd go further and say that NZ needs a 4-lane 100kph divided expressway from Auckland to Wellington, and further. As soon as you have 2 lanes in each direction, differences in traffic speed become a non-issue.

Anyone who has driven in America will know what I mean.

I drove through seven States there late last year sticking to the speed limit with the cruise control set to it on the freeways and interstates and sat in the slow lane the whole time, I was getting passed by everyone.

On the i5 interstate going through Utah the speed limit was 80mph which I was driving at and I was getting passed like I was standing still by nearly everything, including truck and trailer units. Interesting to see the signs on the side of the Interstate saying "Speed monitered by aircraft"

MikeAqua

7779 posts

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#2554587 1-Sep-2020 08:21

MikeB4:

One thing New Zealand roads need is more pull off lanes for trucks, motorhomes and vehicles towing caravans and boats to pull over safely. The verge on the vast majority of NZ roads outside of expressways are totally unsuitable to pull into safely to allow other vehicles to pass. Trying to pull a caravan safely into the verge is not only terrifying it is very dangerous and likely to cause serious damage to the caravan. Drivers of these vehicles are required by law to travel at no more than 90Kph if conditions permit and to pull over where safe to do so to allow other vehicles pass, however finding a safe place is often very difficult and on many routes takes many kilometers before this can be done safely.

I'm not sure if more places to pull over lanes would make that much difference. Plenty of camper vans and people towing trailers, don't use the ones that are there.

The lack of safe verges on NZ roads is generally dangerous. In many places, if something goes wrong, getting off the road will result in a serious accident.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#2554590 1-Sep-2020 08:27

clevedon:

I drove through seven States there late last year sticking to the speed limit with the cruise control set to it on the freeways and interstates and sat in the slow lane the whole time, I was getting passed by everyone.

On the i5 interstate going through Utah the speed limit was 80mph which I was driving at and I was getting passed like I was standing still by nearly everything, including truck and trailer units. Interesting to see the signs on the side of the Interstate saying "Speed monitered by aircraft"

I really enjoy long distance driving in the US. One of my favourites was the I40 and parts of Route 66 in New Mexico and Arizona.

One day (hopefully) I'll go there for three months, buy a car and just road trip.

Mike

Handsomedan

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#2554595 1-Sep-2020 08:30

MikeAqua:

MikeB4:

One thing New Zealand roads need is more pull off lanes for trucks, motorhomes and vehicles towing caravans and boats to pull over safely. The verge on the vast majority of NZ roads outside of expressways are totally unsuitable to pull into safely to allow other vehicles to pass. Trying to pull a caravan safely into the verge is not only terrifying it is very dangerous and likely to cause serious damage to the caravan. Drivers of these vehicles are required by law to travel at no more than 90Kph if conditions permit and to pull over where safe to do so to allow other vehicles pass, however finding a safe place is often very difficult and on many routes takes many kilometers before this can be done safely.

I'm not sure if more places to pull over lanes would make that much difference. Plenty of camper vans and people towing trailers, don't use the ones that are there.

The lack of safe verges on NZ roads is generally dangerous. In many places, if something goes wrong, getting off the road will result in a serious accident.

I have to say, in the rare cases where there are "slow traffic" lanes or pull-off lanes, there's more undetaking going on there, than safe practices by the slower drivers.

They're also often on a hill (uphill), where a heavy vehicle inevitably does slow, due to the weight etc, but if they were to pull over into a lay-by, they'd lose so much momentun=m that when they do re-enter the road, they'd be doing 10km/h...once they got up to speed.

We need better driving skills, less aggression and decent roading.

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Technofreak

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#2554599 1-Sep-2020 08:34

scuwp:

There are no lawsuits in NZ (mostly). People could defend the charges, but the cost of doing so would dwarf the small fine. The equipment is gazetted and certified for use so that argument won't fly (unless somethings gone wrong because the certificate has expired or similar), and there are practical reasons why the device will in most cases read lower than actual speed (i.e. Doppler effect).

I think you might mean cosine effect. 😇 Sorry for being picky.

Doppler effect is how the radar is able to measure speed, i.e. the rate of change in the time it takes the reflection of the transmitted signal to be received back at the transmitter.

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MikeAqua

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#2554601 1-Sep-2020 08:37

Handsomedan:

They're also often on a hill (uphill), where a heavy vehicle inevitably does slow, due to the weight etc, but if they were to pull over into a lay-by, they'd lose so much momentun=m that when they do re-enter the road, they'd be doing 10km/h...once they got up to speed.

I forgot to say, I usually find truck drivers to be really good at pulling over. It's the amateurs, and in particular rented vehicles, that don't pull over.

Mike

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Jase2985

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#2554667 1-Sep-2020 09:15

scuwp:

Jase2985:

everyone has missed the point that all the speed measuring equipment has an accuracy related to it, so the police couldn't possibly enforce a zero tolerance due to said accuracy. they would be up for a few law suits if they started ticketing people at 1-3kp/h over the limit.

There are no lawsuits in NZ (mostly). People could defend the charges, but the cost of doing so would dwarf the small fine. The equipment is gazetted and certified for use so that argument won't fly (unless somethings gone wrong because the certificate has expired or similar), and there are practical reasons why the device will in most cases read lower than actual speed (i.e. Doppler effect).

but that doesnt change the fact that when im traveling at 99kp/h the device could be reading at 102kp/h because the device has a tolerance/accuracy in it, which all measuring devices do. now im being fined when I'm innocent? you also cant certify the equipment as having zero error.

All it will take it one person to defend themselves in court, which there will be people out there who will do that, and claim back all associated costs and there goes the zero tolerance.

Im not advocating speeding, but you cant have a hard and fast this is the speed limit and we will fine you for going slightly over it.

martyyn

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#2554693 1-Sep-2020 10:04

I've done almost 1000kms in the last 4 days, all on open roads.

There wasn't a single 100km of that journey where I didn't come across someone doing 50 in a 70 or 80 in a 100. Don't get me started on the ones who speed up at the passing lanes.

The "speed kills" message has been flogged to death, how about we start educating drivers instead ?

BlinkyBill

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#2554695 1-Sep-2020 10:19

Jase2985:

but that doesnt change the fact that when im traveling at 99kp/h the device could be reading at 102kp/h because the device has a tolerance/accuracy in it, which all measuring devices do. now im being fined when I'm innocent? you also cant certify the equipment as having zero error.

All it will take it one person to defend themselves in court, which there will be people out there who will do that, and claim back all associated costs and there goes the zero tolerance.

Im not advocating speeding, but you cant have a hard and fast this is the speed limit and we will fine you for going slightly over it.

Do commentators in this thread genuinely believe drivers will be pulled over and ticketed if they are 1 or 2 kph over the posted speed limit, as a stand-alone offence?

Oblivian

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#2554698 1-Sep-2020 10:27

BlinkyBill:

Do commentators in this thread genuinely believe drivers will be pulled over and ticketed if they are 1 or 2 kph over the posted speed limit, as a stand-alone offence?

Evidently. The message has got everyone well over riled. For no reason. It still stands. You have to be stopped. Do do that, there needs to be just cause.

And given the continual number of people I see being complete morons on the chc northern motorway roadworks drive to/from every day weaving traffic and doing 20 above the posted temp decrease who are still getting away with it. I don't know why everyone thinks there is something new of this - not like we're now facing a sudden 800% increase in ticketing those who do 101.

I did 105 (that's more than it indicated me in-car too) at least twice this morning. I wasn't stopped. God didn't smite me.

Carry on. But watch for static cameras.

MikeB4

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#2554701 1-Sep-2020 10:36

@MikeAqua when lugging around the Stabicraft I was a bit obsessed about pulling over to allow vehicles through. I would slow down at passing lanes to allow as many through as I could. I found quite embarrassing to have vehicles held up behind me. I will probably be the same when we finally get the chance to get away with the caravan and I will be nagging my wife as she will be driving.

Jase2985

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#2554703 1-Sep-2020 10:42

BlinkyBill:

Do commentators in this thread genuinely believe drivers will be pulled over and ticketed if they are 1 or 2 kph over the posted speed limit, as a stand-alone offence?

its happened before and it will happen again

Oblivian

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#2554709 1-Sep-2020 10:49

And lets not forget the last few years of staffing news stories.

1200 roading police nationwide (yes, there are still differing divisions despite the same branding. Not all of them want to pull people over if it will end in requiring more sections of the book to be known) at the end of 2019. And a downward trend since 2018

Not advocating either side of the limit marker with that as reason. But the whole media release and 8 pages = mountain/molehill. You and I are no more likely to be pinged as last week.

Perhaps it may put the jeebies up those willing to have a conscience make them second guess their current needle position. But very doubt it will magically change the purposeful intended. They do and always will think it's there to be pushed

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/122616782/zerotolerance-speed-regime-a-hard-sell

As put there. It's always been that way.

The new approach is unapologetically unequivocal. Anyone who exceeds the posted speed limit can expect to be stopped. Even by 1km/h. It will then be at the officer’s discretion whether they dish out a stern warning or a fine.

BlinkyBill

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#2554722 1-Sep-2020 11:18

I just wonder if these sensationalist posts are trolling.Because no sane person would reasonably believe they will be pulled over and ticketed for going 1 or 2 kph over the speed limit as a stand alone offence.

Maybe this post is trolling, actually.

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