Towing 3500kg caravan

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Towing 3500kg caravan

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2806 posts

Uber Geek

#3273245 18-Aug-2024 15:36

Airl: Omg. Yep. So no to that then.

Heh! Yeah. We have a 4L V6 petrol Prado. Great rugged SUV, but you can literally see the fuel needle moving down.

Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3273250 18-Aug-2024 16:08

Airl: Ok. While you all geek out about towing, I am unemployed due to autism disclosure. Too old to get a job and on a measly income. I can’t live with other people. I love my motorhome but I want my family to be able to visit and stay with me. I will do anything

I have come to you experts for real world advice. I have sold my motorhome and will be homeless while I wait for my caravan to be built and shipped.

My gut is telling me wildtrack. I don’t think I should buy based on gut but I took one out for a test yesterday and it is nice. It also has room for my stuff which will be useful while I am homeless.

By the way, if anyone has room in wellington for a woman, a small dog and a motorhome worth of stuff for a few weeks, I can pay a reasonable rent.

This puts some perspective around the situation.

My (and I assume many others) assumption was that you were getting a $100k+ caravan for touring / holiday purposes, and, as such would be doing extensive long distance, high speed travel (as a couple or family)

My assumption now is that this caravan is to semi permanently set up and it will generally be towed infrequently and locally.

This shifts the balance from wanting a great tow vehicle, to something that is both a passable daily driver & tow vehicle.

The concerns about dynamic stability & weight ratio's higher in this tread, are valid, but can be somewhat mitigated by keeping travel speeds low (say staying under 80km/h), following distances long etc. Main thing to know is that there needs to be a decent amount of downforce on the towbar for stability. Don't try and pack the rear of the caravan with heavy stuff to get rid of sag in the tow vehicle, just accept it, and if the headlights are manual and you dial them down with the know near the drivers knee.

On the vehicles you presented, while I would say the 100 series land cruiser is a better vehicle, The running costs on that Landcruiser, are going to be too high for your situation, so cross that off the list.

The ranger you have listed is a solid pick, given that stretching the budget to a 200 series is off the cards. Good enough for it to be the pick of a commercial operator towing caravans etc. for a living:

https://bobstransport.co.nz/gallery/

Main downside to Utes (vs larger SUV) is that they are really long, so a bit of a chore to park as a daily driver.

Note that the ranger in the era you are looking at is a part time 4x4, which is great off road, but does mean that 4x4 cannot be used on sealed roads. If you want the 4x4 to move the caravan around on slippery surfaces, it is really useful, but if your parking spot is sealed, you could save some money and get the RWD (but the RWD is a little lighter if you are concerned about weight ratio's)

If you wanted a cheap vehicle with a 3500kg tow rating my pick would be the Ssangyong Rexton, but of course you do need to deal with the impact of that vehicle being a heap more rare than a ranger. The nice thing about a common car is that parts are widely available.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/ssangyong/rexton/listing/4812221428

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3273251 18-Aug-2024 16:20

i would add one more thing, while a inertia based braking system is legal and simple, i would not use one in this case. i would spend really good money on something decent. not because of doing big km's but rather reliability and hopefully with stability control. that really helps with large sided caravans that get blown around in the wind a bit.

johno1234

2806 posts

Uber Geek

#3273263 18-Aug-2024 16:47

If I was going caravanning and it was just me, wife and my dog I would get a smaller caravan than 3.5T which sounds enormous. You can get quite nice modern ones with tons of room that weigh so much less that are so much easier to move, take up less space, cheaper on gas to tow and so on. I think all that extra dimension and weight would be an absolute curse, wouldn't it?

Scott3

3970 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3273266 18-Aug-2024 17:00

johno1234:

If I was going caravanning and it was just me, wife and my dog I would get a smaller caravan than 3.5T which sounds enormous. You can get quite nice modern ones with tons of room that weigh so much less that are so much easier to move, take up less space, cheaper on gas to tow and so on. I think all that extra dimension and weight would be an absolute curse, wouldn't it?

Read the below post. Sounds like the caravan is to be the primary dwelling, rather than for touring. And it is ordered and being custom built already.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=315759&page_no=7#3273229

MartinGZ

359 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3273273 18-Aug-2024 17:22

Scott3:

johno1234:

If I was going caravanning and it was just me, wife and my dog I would get a smaller caravan than 3.5T which sounds enormous. You can get quite nice modern ones with tons of room that weigh so much less that are so much easier to move, take up less space, cheaper on gas to tow and so on. I think all that extra dimension and weight would be an absolute curse, wouldn't it?

Read the below post. Sounds like the caravan is to be the primary dwelling, rather than for touring. And it is ordered and being custom built already.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=315759&page_no=7#3273229

Perhaps Airl will let us know what she has ordered and the intended use? It makes a heck of a lot of difference to the advice given.

As she originally wanted a vehicle suitable for towing most of us have assumed it would be towed at some point. Agree with other posts that it is a heck of an ask to tow a big caravan as the first towing experience.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3273275 18-Aug-2024 17:33

tweake:

... manufacture specs these days is relatively easy to find. ...

Those specs often vary by country/jursidiction. Towing limitations are prime examples. Before you use any specs found on line you need to verify which country they apply to.

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tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3273277 18-Aug-2024 17:40

Technofreak:

tweake:

... manufacture specs these days is relatively easy to find. ...

Those specs often vary by country/jursidiction. Towing limitations are prime examples. Before you use any specs found on line you need to verify which country they apply to.

not that hard unless its some weird obscure make/model.

however another way around that is to make it so you can't go over tow bar rating. tow bar is rated to the car, trailer to the tow bar. that makes it a manufactures problem rather than end user. also its easy just to make all trailers above 700kg have brakes as almost nothing is rated for above 700kg unbraked trailer.

MartinGZ

359 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3273280 18-Aug-2024 17:51

Hammerer:

@MartinGZ

I wouldn't take your advice and I hope nobody else does. He definitely has not "lost the plot" on towing but a lot of people are upset with his position in other areas, say electrical vehicles. I don't like his delivery style but his mechanical engineering credentials and expertise make him a credible expert.

Perhaps I should have said his "presentation style" has lost the plot.

From what you write, I suggest we have a pretty much similar, but not identical view of Cadogan. I personally dislike his presentation style, but value the technical input. The problem is his newer videos ones have only say 5 minutes actual content in a 20 minute video, the rest is dribble - in my opinion.

The videos you link are all pertinent, but show two completely different presentation styles. The first and last are serious, with a bit of humour where appropriate and should be watched by all. The one on the court case is very pertinent to this thread where it deals with overloading and death of three people caused by the overloading. The other two I forced myself to watch because you linked them. However, the style is not for me and I would normally not get 2 minutes into them before going elsewhere. A shame really.

BTW, he really needs to get over his hatred of caravans, which borders on the pathological. He has good points to make, why alienate the people he is trying to convince? It's so counter productive.

The old style Cadogan where I reckon the presentation mix was acceptable and relevant to this topic is: Towing basics: Is towball download always part of the vehicle's payload? | Auto Expert John Cadogan (youtube.com).

SomeoneSomewhere

1804 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3273283 18-Aug-2024 18:13

tweake:
Technofreak:

Those specs often vary by country/jursidiction. Towing limitations are prime examples. Before you use any specs found on line you need to verify which country they apply to.

not that hard unless its some weird obscure make/model.

however another way around that is to make it so you can't go over tow bar rating. tow bar is rated to the car, trailer to the tow bar. that makes it a manufactures problem rather than end user. also its easy just to make all trailers above 700kg have brakes as almost nothing is rated for above 700kg unbraked trailer.

If your vehicle is a 4-6 ton light truck, even a 1-ton unbraked trailer is almost unnoticeable when braking. I don't think my previous employer's truck made a differentiation between braked and unbraked; it was a flat 3500kg.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3273303 18-Aug-2024 20:06

SomeoneSomewhere:

If your vehicle is a 4-6 ton light truck, even a 1-ton unbraked trailer is almost unnoticeable when braking. I don't think my previous employer's truck made a differentiation between braked and unbraked; it was a flat 3500kg.

we are talking light vehicles here, ie 3.5 ton or less. above 3.5 ton is a different ball game. ditto with trailers, light trailers only go to 3.5 ton.

K8Toledo

1014 posts

Uber Geek

#3273309 18-Aug-2024 21:41

I forgot to mention, I also drove trucks in the USA for six years. 18 Wheelers.

Truck drivers would cross the western states like Texas, Arizona and Nevada at night in convoy doing 85MPH (~135kmh), no problem. 130Kmh in a Kenworth feels like 100.

The trucks are stable due to the weight distribution, I wouldn't call it downforce (although we may be talking about the same thing) and of course the airbag suspension heavy trucks use.

Something all American semi's have but are rarely seen in NZ is sliding 5th wheels and sliding trailer axles.

Whenever we were close to 38T the maximum weight in USA, we would drive to the nearest truck stop and check the axle weights on scales which are commonplace, then adjust the axle weights accordingly using the sliding axles.

SomeoneSomewhere

1804 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3273310 18-Aug-2024 21:43

A fifth wheel towing connection means you get lots of downforce relatively far forward on the towing vehicle, meaning your steer tyres are fairly well loaded. I think that's the main thing.

K8Toledo

1014 posts

Uber Geek

#3273312 18-Aug-2024 21:47

SomeoneSomewhere:

A fifth wheel towing connection means you get lots of downforce relatively far forward on the towing vehicle, meaning your steer tyres are fairly well loaded. I think that's the main thing.

No it means the weight is shifted to the towing vehicle. 5th wheels are on or in front of the drive axles, a towbar is behind it.

SomeoneSomewhere

1804 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3273313 18-Aug-2024 21:49

Same thing? Downforce is putting weight on the towing vehicle?

If that downforce is far behind the rear axle(s), it causes the nose and steer tyres to lift. If it's over or forward of the rear axles, it puts more weight onto the steer tyres.

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